Singling out Doble

if and only if the voice is GMA’s then what does that prove? but what if it is not her voice? what would that prove? if she remains silent what would that prove? either way we should always think rationally. what if somebody copied her voice and garys’? what if its not really wiretapped? what if its all a big conspiracy? what would we gain from all this? what would we loose? what if it happens again? if wiretapping is used in all of our institutions then we’re really in big trouble… what if this is all just a big lie. doble or not, what if America tries to “rescue” our republic for the sake of maintaining democracy? just as mahusay and doble was rescued? what if GMA is really innocent? what if media is really an institution that is not independent rather is dependent on its advertisers? what if….

we are thinking rationally, floyd. you are the one who’s not. you’re just asking a bunch of not-so-well-thought-of questions.

Floyd, I have to admit, after reading and listening to the tape, this is too much to ignore. You have to ask yourself a questions, first it is very difficult to emulate or pretend to be someone. Let alone conveying names of all the people involved. I had jot down the names mentioned on tape and went researched they are authentic people working behind the rigging. Ellen Peralta was clearly mentioned several times as a “executive secretary” of Gary. This is how they had discovered that Gary on tape is Garcilliano the commisioner and his executive secretary was Ellen Peralta. Vidol, Abalos, barbers Mike Arroyo. Liza, Rizza, just to named a few. How could these names be on conversations if there is a questions if “someone copied their voices”. How could they memorized or even had the idea that these people are critical to the conversation. Floyd, obviously the conversation is an actual calls between people rigging the election and who the person assign on each places. Knowing all the people behind it and who, where and when to call is hard to do it alone by a person?people impersonating anyone.

Pag si mandarayang gloria e hindi naalis sa pwesto, then its really impossible for anybody to removed her for the next 5 yrs. Kawawang kawawa na talaga ang Pilipinas. Wala ng patutunguhan. Dapat na syang maalis sa pwesto, at hindi dahilan kung sino ang papalit , dahil kauna unahan pa lang dinaya na nya ang election. Natatakot ba syang mawala sa kanya ang maraming makukulimbat na at napakayabang na tanungin tayo taong bayan kung sino ang papalit? Bakit sya lang ba ang matalino dito sa bansa natin. Tapos ang lakas pa nya sabihin nuon na may basbas ng Pope John Paul II ang kanyang pagkakaupo sa malacanang. Pati ang Diyos ang ginagamit talaga ng mga alagad ng demonyo na tulad ni Gloria MANDARAYA.

LORD pls this is the time the FILIPINO people need your help!!!

You don’t even have to hear the whole taped conversations to suspect that its true. Just observe Malacanang’s reaction. It’s obvious that they paniced when the tape came out. One time they were saying one is fake, one is original.. next time they’re saying both are fake. They are even trying to divert the issue to wire-tapping when I think they should take more time to talk about the contents of the tape.

The wire-tapped tape really is a revelation, as of now authentication or any means verifying is now secondary. Doble and Ong are for formalization purposes only when a case would pursue against GMA. The tape contains collaborating evidence as on how the May 2004 election was a big fraud orchestrated by the camps of GMA. The tape would be the glue in a big puzzle for the emerging truth.

It’s also a good material for the opposition on how GMA really thinks and move. The tape shows the real color of GMA that she is full of greed which she denied the fact that Garcy resent to dirty works like kidnapping.

An excert in the tape:
Conversation between Gary and a certain Boy on or about 05 13:41 hotel June’04
Boy: Hello, sir. Si Rashma Hali parang nandyan sa Maynila
Gary: Nasa Maynila? Naku delikado. Hindi ba natin makontak?
Boy: Naka-off ang cellphone.
Pinahanap ko sa ISAFP.
Gary: Ah ….delikado yan.
Boy: Oo nga, sabi ko sa ISAFP… (Visayan dialect) sa Zamboanga para may bargaining chip tayo dyan, eh
damputin na natin yung pamilya din niya. Para din a siya makapagsalita. Kasi delikado yan eh.
Gary: Pero nagtrabaho ba talaga yan?
Boy: Nagtrabaho yan sir, Pero yung, yung ___ trabaho nila. Ang problema ang Catangan baka ang sabihin
niyan na binaligtad ni Catangan sa itaas sa provincial level.
Gary: Maghanap ka lang yung well-meaning na kamag-anak nya. Wag mo munang pakikidnap yung
pamilya. Soft touch muna na puwedeng maka-persuade sa kanya (line-cut)

Gary: Ah tawagan mo nga si Datu Buklakbun (?)
Man: Oo sir, hindi kasi siya magsagot eh.
Gary: Kaya nga eh baka ipakidnap ko siya.
Man: Hanapan ng paraan para makontak siya.
Gary: Kontakin mo kasi kailangan ko siya. Baka gusto niyo pakidnap ko siya…
Man: Oo sir, ok sir.

But on a lighter side I found it amusing and entertaining listening to the tapes, specially in an incident where Barbers oftenly called Garcy reminding to pad his votes and Garcy assuring Barbers that there is nothing to worry. In the end, Garcy forgot to pad the votes as Barbers lost the last position in the senatorial race.

Very well said Masha. Floyd, I know that you know what we know and most likely knows more than we know. Obviously, you are acting hypocritically for the reason that you have your vested (and i mean selfish) interests to protect. Sadly though, matatapos na maliligayang araw mo. HELLO, GARCI.. 😛

If PCIJ is being played by either side and they willingly allow it, that’s their own lookout and soon enough it will show. So far, I believe PCIJ have been quite fastidious and even-handed. If Estrada and Lacson were involved, what of it? It is not going to change the owners of those voices and the content of the conversations. I do not know that the intention of anyone should take primacy over a clear, evident proof of a grieveous wrong, legal issues notwithstanding.. And maybe there is a conspiracy but what of it, should that give anyone reason to ignore the scandal? Truth deserves to be out, that’s all.

I’m just wondering where is the logic in this? if we say that the administration ordered the ISAFP to wiretapped the phone of Com. Garcilliano then why PGMA called Garcilliano and talk about cheating in the election. Napakatanga naman ni PGMA alam na niyang nakawiretapped yung phone ni Garcilliano tapos she will talked about cheating in the election when she knows that somebody is listening to their conversation. Or PGMA don’t know really that somebody from the administration has ordered the ISAFP to wiretapped Garcilliano because they suspect him of being a traitor to the administration. I can’t really see here the logic if the administration is the one who ordered the ISAFP to wiretapped the phone. Hindi naman cguro tanga si PGMA kung alam na niyang nakawiretapped yung phone at tatawagan pa si Garcilliano at sasabihing mandaya siya sa election di ba.
I’m not for PGMA but upto now we don’t know really yet what is the truth. I’m just analyzing other people says that the administration is the one who ordered the ISAFP to wiretapped Garcilliano. I hope you got my point here. Unless talagang napakatanga ni PGMA cause alam na niyang may nagwa-wiretapped sa kanila tapos kinausap pa niya si Garcilliano tungkol sa pandaraya sa election.

Syempre yung magwa-wire-tap, alam din nilang nandadaya si GMA, kaya nga pinapa-surveillance si Garcillano e. Komportable lang si GMA kasi alam nyang yung mga nagsu-surveillance, nasa side nya rin. Syempre ang uutusan mong magmonitor sa COMELEC Commissioner, para malaman kung loyal nga sya, e yung pinagtitiwalaan mo din.

Isa pa, pano naman makukumusta ni GMA yung pandaraya nila? “Garci, gumamit ka ng ibang phone, naka-wire-tap yung sayo e.” E di nalaman naman ni Garcillano na mino-monitor sya..

puede rin inutos sirain yung tape pero hindi ginawa.baka ibinenta nga yan sa oposisyon e.just like what happened with the casino tapes ni erap.kung ganun, tanong ko kung bakit inilabas na lang nung patay na si fpj? wala bang rumours na may kinalalaman ang cia dito? wala bang article regarding sa background ng isafp chief at that time when the wiretapping happened? nung eleksyon ba nung 1992, fvr vs mirriam, nasan ba tong garcilliano na to?

dun sa comment ni whimpy na :

Hindi naman cguro tanga si PGMA kung alam na niyang nakawiretapped yung phone at tatawagan pa si Garcilliano at sasabihing mandaya siya sa election di ba.

Well, mostly internet scammers are baited or act being stupid because of greed. People lose their judgement, reasoning, and thinking due to enormous greed.

Let’s take for example Garcy:

Ang dami niyang tinanguan sa election fraud, mula sa Mayor, Congressman, Senator and even GMA herself. Sa sobrang dami nakalimutan niyang i pad ang votes ni Barbers kahit na palaging tumatawag si Barbers sa kanya. Ang nagbigay lang ng figure ay yung kay Barbers na 2M, how much more siguro dun sa iba pa. Remember Garcy as said by Monsod was talented and very intelligent when it comes to election law. Sa sobrang gahaman niya sa pera me nakalimutan sya.

In this case GMA is so greedy in position, yun talaga ang totoo sa pagkatao niya, which the tape revealed, babagsak siya sa sobrang kagahaman niya sa posisyon. Dun nga sa tape me mga kidnapping pang nabanggit, how come she permitted Garcy to resort in kidnapping. That I think would be the answer : GREED

Sa sobrang kagahaman niya nakalimutan niya na me binatawan siyang salita na “I would not run for the 2004 Presidential Elections”.

If its not too much I would want to answer all your rebuttals in a way na mas madaling maintindihan (see-? *). So here it goes.

okay floyd, tinatamad kasi ako kanina to write
pero kung nag-iisip ka logically you would think of the ff

1) if it is gma’s voice then that would prove that she cheated in the elections and condones kidnapping to achieve her ends. please review the tapes. i think those are impeachable offenses.

*look masha I didn’t said that I didn’t listen to the tapes, what I meant is that to prove it would be something that require more than just listening to it. I mean with the onslaught of technology’s advances it may never be far from true to be able to create a certain form of dialogue and thus resulting to this “Gloriagate” as we aptly call it. I’m not closing any doors but it remains to be proven through hard evidence that it really was GMA and her cohorts who did it.

2) if you’ve listened to the tapes, you would conclude that it is who it is, or they are who they are. no question. silence is often construed, and rightly so, as tacit compliance, in this case acknowldegment. really, if that’s not her, why doesn’t she just say so.

*Masha-if GMA denies that its her on the phone then she has no power to call upon the Republic Act No. 4200, or the Anti-Wire Tapping Act. While if she doesn’t answer anything then she might end up to what is called “the spiral of silence” wherein guilt is formulated accordingly to the subject of inquiry basing indifference as a reason for such. GMA’s move to present two tapes through Ignacio Bunye and handing it over to the NBI while afterwards juxtaposing the authenticity of their own tape saying “that the voice might not be of the President” may well be deduced as admitting to the crime of RA 4200. Furthermore masha GMA is torn between two courts, the legal court and the court of public opinion, I’d never want to dwell on the latter for one because it takes away the wisdom of inquiry rather it invokes emotions, especially when what your hearing is not pleasing to the ears.
The point is I’d rather conclude on the merits of hard evidence than on my own opinion masha.

3) to copy a voice is one thing but to concoct a whole series conversations the details of which correspond to what was happening at the time the conversations were tapped, plus the sociology and culture of the conversations as well? (check inquirer for some details as to empty ballot boxes, the search for rashma hali, rufus rodriguez etc) all these put together and more doesnt leave any probability that these tapes were faked. there are too many details that jive and pertain only to the people involved.

*masha-I admit that it is hard put to formulate correspondence between people but im also not saying that it cannot be done, but yes if the coincidences surrounding the alleged tapes were true if and only if proven through witnesses and further evidences then why are we not facing it in court? Why cant we prove it? Why do we prove it according to what we THOUGHT about it without having to understand the institutions surrounding it like the Comelec and the Government? Also I’d want you to elaborate more to what you’re talking about when you mentioned about sociology and culture.

4) what conspiracy are you talking about? on what basis? where did you get this?

*masha-have u heard about Venezuela, Chile, and Cuba? If your answer is no then try reading something about them.

5) what would we gain? i dont know about you but i respect the democratic processes of this country regardless of the result. a big part of these processes is that we the people have a say in who governs by way of elections. now if gma cheated then she violated a primary tenet of democracy, didnt she?

*masha if you respect the democracy and the sanctity of the vote then you should not partake of it. Why you ask, because if you read more about how Benjamin Abalos went about letting an illegal bidder bid on a billion peso project to computerize the elections yet afterwards failing to answer about it then maybe you’ll realize how sacred your vote would be only if its going to be counted. The point is the elections were rigged as far as evidence is concerned. I think it would be a better basis for impeachment if the Comelec failed its duty to be answerable to the public with regards to a number of election centers that has no elections at all yet having a number of voters or might as well inquire about the voting of dead individuals so on and forth. And now you tell me if your vote counts. The fact is we trusted an institution not worth to be trusted just to be able to exercise our right to vote so there.

6) accept that wiretapping is here to stay. be aware though of your right to privacy. corollarily, if you dont have anything good to say then dont say it na lang.
remember in this case that the isafp is the one that tapped garcillano and that was because the administration ordered it to make sure garci will not turn traitor.

*masha I don’t quite get you on this. Corollarily? By the way is it proven that ISAFP was the one who really tapped Garcillano?

7) what is a big lie? who is lying? are there any indications that somebody is lying? tell us who.

*I am not pointing my fingers to anyone but I pray you look at this statement figuratively. When I said “what if this is all just a big lie” im also referring to the opposition and other parties who’s going to gain anything from this.

8) if there is wrongdoing and we dont do anything about it, then a) we are all turds b) our laws mean nothing c) democracy is dead etc.

*Right! I agree but first let us establish if there really was/is any wrongdoing before anything else.

9) where are you getting the america rescue thing? is there any indication of that?

*read your history masha if you remember the benevolent assimilation thingy of the Americans and their sacred phrase “they are a threat to our national security” they might find this event as a reason to intervene and who’s saying that the armed forces are not getting any support from them? Read more on our history please.

if you have listened to the tapes and have been reading news and taking in all that is going on then you would could only come to the conclusion that it IS gloria in those tapes and that she is guilty and that she is being proud and selfish in hanging on to the presidence. she could only bring damage to the country. even if she hurdles this, she will be a lameduck president.

*if I would come out with that conclusion id be more happy to personally kick her out of office but nonetheless if I don’t have enough evidence to support it and would rather turn on whim and speculations then id rather sit and listen more and learn more.

in sum, it is better to ask questions that are based what information we have. there is no sense in making up questions that are based on air.

*what is your empirical data on this masha?

Floyd, I have to admit, after reading and listening to the tape, this is too much to ignore. You have to ask yourself a questions, first it is very difficult to emulate or pretend to be someone. Let alone conveying names of all the people involved. I had jot down the names mentioned on tape and went researched they are authentic people working behind the rigging. Ellen Peralta was clearly mentioned several times as a “executive secretary” of Gary. This is how they had discovered that Gary on tape is Garcilliano the commisioner and his executive secretary was Ellen Peralta. Vidol, Abalos, barbers Mike Arroyo. Liza, Rizza, just to named a few. How could these names be on conversations if there is a questions if “someone copied their voices”. How could they memorized or even had the idea that these people are critical to the conversation. Floyd, obviously the conversation is an actual calls between people rigging the election and who the person assign on each places. Knowing all the people behind it and who, where and when to call is hard to do it alone by a person?people impersonating anyone.

Maria: yes i was also moved when i heard the tapes i felt bad for all of us, but rationality must always overcome our emotions. let us hope that those who are supposed to pay dearly do so in a proper way. let us not be ludicrous with our emotions, let u be sober, i think filipinos are good in discerning things.

i don’t know, but if Doble wasnt kidnapped, why the heck didnt he speak to the media or grant any interviews in his 3 days in san carlos? why didnt ong present doble?

—Off topic—

Warning: Be careful especially if you are taking bus or train or around a big crowd. I’m a little paranoid but I need to tell you that there might be some incidences of criminal acts or a major news like bombing a mall. All I’m saying is that they might use some diversionary tactic to distract the attention of the people. Again, be careful and be vigilant.

Reading Floyd and Masha’s “informal debate” is a welcome respite as bloggers will have a luxury of time to reflect and decide who score more points than the other by merely referring back to their arguments and counter-arguments.

But current news will transport us back to reality that GMA has resorted to stonewalling herself rather than facing the issue squarely on whether or not she is the”ma’am” in the tapes.

GMA could have spared us our precious time debating and further dividing our people if, once for all,—using Raul C. Pangalangan’s own words : must step forward and tell it like it is.

There is no need to remind us that we, bloggers, are in a court of public opinion and not in a court of law, thus, we are not strictly governed by the “rules of court” , though as always we are guided by common sense.

And going back to Floyd-Marsha’s intellectual skirmish— I rule in favor of Martha.

i quite follow what Swerty said.

Malacanang surely is cooking News headliners to divert people’s attention on this latest “scandal”.

Hope no lives will be shed!

noon panahon ng halalan, tumahimik rin itong si MAM’, hindi pina buksan kahit isa man lang balota, hinayaan niyang kanyang mga galamay ang mag pa NOTED-NOTED na laang.
ngayon may pruweba na tayo sa ating mga hinala!, pero itong si MAM’ tahimik na naman, hinihintay na naman mapunta ang lahat sa kanyang mga galamay.
TAKE NOTE!!!!!!
HELLO, NOGRA……HELLO,DEFENS……..HELLO, DEVE……HELLO, PICH…
HELLO, MIT……
at sa lahat pa ng mga HILO!!!!!! LAOS NA YAN!!

Enough of the Clancy theories. Based on the underlying circumstances and the reactions of the supposed parties involved (and their pages), common sense would dictate which is which and who committed what. We all know in our hearts of hearts that it is the voice of GMA and the insinuations therein are what they are, period. She was given time to explain but what now. The issue then is simple and clear. There was a grand conspiracy to rig the elections and what we have right now is a leader that never was. Everything hereon should now rest upon us.

Im just curious about Doble…. Sinong nag-utos kay Doble na tiktikan si Garci? Hindi ba sapat ung ginawa ni Ma’m na pag-appoint kay Garci sa COMELEC bilang pagtitiwala nito?

Dapat there is a background check kay Doble, sa lahat ng previous affiliation nya? Nagtatanong lang

O kaya tanungin siya kung bakit nasa kanya fone niya at di kinuha nung mga captives niya….diba pag kinidnap ka kukunin talaga fone mo.. at bakit sa asawa pa humingi ng tulong..diba may mga kakilala naman siguro siya na pwede sabihan yung libo linong soldiers, police etc. na nakakalat sa manila at sa labas ng san carlos na nasa loob lang siya ng san carlos seminary compund…. bobo talaga yung administration… mas butas lagi ang palusot nila..

“Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity”

or in plain english,

“When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras”.

Checkmate na si GLORIA kung sa chess pa.

If she will deny thta she is GMA or Code 1 (as referred by the narrator), then–SINUNGALING SIYA!!!!

If she will accept that she said “Hello Garci…Hello Garci? Pero I million yung lamang ko”–then MANDARAYA SIYA!!!

Huwag na nating pag usapan yang Doble, Samuel Ong, Rez Cortez at kung sino pa.

The substance and contents of the taped conversation is paramount. You have to listen to it to observe their demeanor.

In the first place Malacanang as early as June 4 knew all along that there was a leakage of the wiretapping of Garcillano. Sila unang nag expose. Sila unang nagtanong about the possible leakage of the wiretapped tapes from the cellphone carriers/companies. Alam nila na cellular phone ni Garcillano ang source ng usapan. Kanino galing ang cellular intercept equipment-di ba ISAFP. Asan na si Garci? Asan si LtC PEDRO SUMAYO ng MIG21, ISAFP? Asan si Marlou Quevedo ng ISAFP? Di po ba mga amo ito ni TSgt DOBLE. Pansinin niyo di lang iisa ang boses ng narrator so hindi lang si Doble anfg involved di po ba?

Si GMA tanga? TANGA talaga pero at stake yung pagkapanalo niya katya nakialam na siya. Naalala niyo dati? Tumawag siya mismo kay General Espinosa sa Cell at tanong? “Hello? Espines totoo ba mag coup d’etat ka raw sa akin?”

Wag na tayong maglokohan. Di po ba huwad ang “presidente natin”.

She maybe able to survive jueteng (Erap did not), wiretapping scandal, election fraud (Marcos did not), Jose Pidal but how will she survive the international community and foreign investors’ indifference?

ang simple lang naman e. alam nyo, lahat ng kasagutan sa tanong at agam agam tungkol sa isyu ng gloriatape ay nasa salita ni sec. bunye noong naglabas siya ng 2 tapes

Sabi ni Sgt Doble kinidnap daw sya? Being a former PAOCTF operative bat hindi niya ginamit ang training nya para makatakas sa mga kumidnap sa kanya? Sa halip ang unang kinontak nya ay ang asawa nya at ang asawa nya pa ang nag-inform sa military kung nasaan sya. Kaya naman pala hindi nagkakaroon ng solusyon ang mga krimeng nagaganap sa ating bansa dahil ang mga intellegence operatives natin are not that INTELLIGENT.

[…] Agents of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) reportedly want to finish off T/Sgt. Vidal Doble, the agent responsible for leaking the wiretapped conversations to the political opposition. This is according to Doble’s girlfriend, Marietta “Mayette” Santos, who was interviewed by GMA-Channel 7 host and reporter Arnold Clavio. […]

[…] It added that Technical sergeant Vidal Doble, an agent of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, should be held liable for his actions. Doble allegedly sold the tapes to Ong for P2M but later denied this and said it was Ong who approached him to "own up" to the wiretapping for the said amount. […]