February 27, 2006 · Posted in: Edsa Special, General, State of Emergency
‘We must not surrender our civil liberties’ — Carmen Diokno
MRS. Carmen Diokno read this statement at yesterday’s morning mass celebrating the 84th birth anniversary of her late husband, Senator Jose W. Diokno. Today, February 27, is his death anniversary.
Show Us Edsa
On July 2 last year, the Jose W. Diokno Foundation called on Mrs. Gloria Macapagal Arroyo to step down from office. Today, on the 84th birth anniversary of Pepe, we no longer address Mrs. Arroyo, who heeds no one but herself and her coterie of advisers, and needs Proclamation 1017 to prop up her flagging government. We prefer to address our people, whom Pepe so loved and with whom he struggled for a better life.
On the matter of leadership, we say: Out of 80 million Filipinos, Mrs. Arroyo is not the best we can produce. She does not even come close to the best. But Mrs. Arroyo’s display of arrogance is not what disturbs us, though I must admit it is irksome. It is, rather, the implicit assertion that we deserve her kind of leadership — for our people do not — and that there is no alternative to her, when there are. Remember that martial law lasted as long as it did in part because some accepted the notion of a so-called ‘lesser evil’.
We who have asked Mrs. Arroyo to resign from office are often criticized for being disunited. So let us examine the sources of our disunity. Clearly there is an element of distrust, that some in the political opposition are out for their own ends just as some among organized groups are perceived to have their own agenda. Suppose we accept this to be a fact of our present political life. Is it nonetheless possible for us to come together on the basis of certain principles? I believe it is.
For example, we all want our elections cleansed of corrupt election officials, cheating and other corrupt practices. We desire an electoral process and system that will bring out new, good leaders who have a fair chance of winning.
We do not want the constitution changed at any and all cost, in the manner that Mrs. Arroyo and Speaker de Venecia know best. They make no effort at subtlety in their attempt to subvert elections and remain in power in the name of constitutional change.
Most of all, we reject the social inequity that our political system feeds on. Using the poverty of the people against the people is the worst, most painful crime of all.
So what is to be done? First and most immediate, we must not surrender our civil liberties. Sometimes I think that martial law was effective because it didn’t hurt enough people; the dictatorship selected its targets skillfully and then isolated these targets from the public view. A false sense of comfort thus resulted. Let us not allow ourselves to be fooled again. One act of suppression, if unopposed, makes possible other acts of suppression.
Second, let us seriously work out the bases of our unity and agree that we cannot have all that we want now. This is a difficult task — I know how hard Pepe worked to bring the opposition together during martial law. But try and try again we must.
In all this I ask that we think of our youth and consciously cultivate young leaders. We widows and veterans of martial law have reached the pre-departure area; our knees do not allow us to line the streets and march in protest. This is not just a world we are about to leave, but one we will bequeath to our children, grandchildren and, in my case, great grandchildren. Listen to 17-year old Jose Miguel Bermudez, a freshman studying in Las Pinas, who wrote in the Inquirer’s ‘Young Blood’ column. “Everyday of my life,” he says, “my teachers and my parents admonish me to shape up. I think it is now my generation’s turn to tell my parents and those who run this country that it is time for them to shape up. They are being selfish and myopic when they complain about the inconvenience and disruption caused by people protesting against lying, cheating and stealing. They would rather go about their regular business even if that means leaving many fundamental and moral issues unresolved.” Talking about how these issues will haunt the next generation, Jose Miguel asks: “Guess who will be left to deal with this ghost when it returns? Guess who will be left to deal with the ugly litter of an irresponsible and apathetic generation that would trade their children’s future for short-term convenience?” (7 February 2006)
My own grandson, Jose Lorenzo — we call him Pepe for short, who was born a little over a year after Edsa, wrote in yesterday’s Inquirer: “We relegate Edsa to these four days, we remember Edsa only when we feel the need to and we kill Edsa…. It makes me angry that the revolution to most of us has become a set of dates and actions that little children memorize for Sibika. And I’m angry that most of what we’ve read so far is about the events that transpired, and the generals and politicians ‘who made Edsa happen’. Edsa is not about them. Edsa is also more than the people who were there. It’s even more than the leaders it ousted.” My other Pepe ends with a request: “I’d like to ask a favor from you who were lucky enough to have felt the joy of revolution. Don’t tell us about it. Show us Edsa. A lot of us don’t even know what it looks like.”
So we who know, must show Edsa. But in this process of showing, I advise our youth: do not be passive onlookers. Your job, like that of my generation that is about to pass, is to constantly improve upon what is shown and to never give up. This was Pepe’s dream of a nation truly for our children, and it remains ours.
Carmen I. Diokno
La Salle Greenhills
26 February 2006
52 Responses to ‘We must not surrender our civil liberties’ — Carmen Diokno
schumey
February 27th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
I hope these wishes of our youth will go quietly unheard. EDSA never ended when we kicked a dictator out of Malacanang, it was only the start of our country’s long and arduous journey. We all must be proactive to achieve our goals. Hindi kaya tinatablan ng hiya hindi lamang ang mga namumuno kundi pati na rin ang sambayanan na nagsasawalang-bahala?
We should all set aside our own interests for the betterment of our country. Let’s not sit idly by while our Philippines is slowly raped and ravaged by those who are so corrupted with power.
We all fought to retore democracy and freedom, for the right to have credible elections. What we have now is an abomination of that freedom. Dapat nating ipaalala sa mga politikong yan, na tayo, mga simpleng mamamayan ang nagluklok sa kanila. Sila ay ating mga tagapag-silbi lamang at tayo ang kanilang mga amo.
Its time for us to show the future generations that they will inherit from us the good life they so deserve. As the specter of a new dictator looms, let us show them that we will not go quietly in the night but instead rise to the occassion and defend what is truly upright and moral.
Chabeli
February 28th, 2006 at 12:07 am
How beautiful! How inspiring.
We must not tolerate a GLORIA. We must continue the fight against cheating, against lying and against stealing.
EDSA indeed must continue.
maximusmarix
February 28th, 2006 at 12:08 am
RESTORED DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES indeed brought about by EDSA I.
What really happened to us? Are we still blinded by a naive telephone conversation? Which is planted in our lives for the past years?
Are we doing our share in this political scenario? Are we like gossipers?
I would like to say POLITICKING = ENTERTAINMENT stories in our everyday lives…Surely, Politicking is indeed a reality in us, a Filipino nation…
There is NO HOPE IN THE FILIPINO WAY TO PROGRESS THAT IS TRULY EMBEDDED in the HEART OF GOSSIPERS OF THE SUPPOSED “HELLO GARCI”
TAPPING A CONVERSATION OF TWO PERSONS…INDEED GOSSIPERS…
A GREAT PLUNDER … SOCIAL DYNAMICISM OF THE SOCIO-POLITIO-ECONOMIC LIFESTYLE OF A PHILIPPINE NATION… IS STILL HOPE FOR YOU FILIPINO?
IS THERE HOPE FOR YOU JUAN DELA CRUZ? I WOULD NOT LIKE TO ANSWER….A PLUNDER OF MORALITY????….TRUTH…WHAT IS THEN TRUTH????????????????????????A MERE GOOD NEWS OF GOSSIPS…..
ryebosco
February 28th, 2006 at 12:13 am
With all due respect Mrs. Diokno, most of us agree with you. However, civil liberties only apply to the corrupt few running this country’s politics and economy. They form alliances such as marriages: Cojuangco-Jaworski, Estrada-Lopez, Marcos-Araneta, etc, etc. etc. When you say…..
“For example, we all want our elections cleansed of corrupt election officials, cheating and other corrupt practices. We desire an electoral process and system that will bring out new, good leaders who have a fair chance of winning.”
Do you really think that the entrenched, wealthy few who rule this country (most of whom are corrupt) will let that happen? Do you really expect them to share power and wealth for the good of the 80 million plus Filipinos? Be realistic and honest.
Again, I want what you want Mrs. Diokno. But right now, I don’t really care if Arroyo’s family is guilty of jueteng or cheated in the last election. I’m sick of protests, I’m sick of seeing Imee side by side with Butz Aquino, I’m sick of Mrs. Aquino next to Jinggoy, I’m sick of Mrs. Aquino’s brother plotting in the background, I’m sick of the fact that Imelda roamed free in luxury after 1986 and her children holding government positions, I’m sick of paid protesters in the streets of Manila, etc. etc. etc….I’m sick and tired of it.
Ninoy is dead, he could have been our savior. Out of the 80 million Filipinos, Arroyo is the only one who stood and said, “I control the situation.” This is taking it out of context but right here, right now, she does control the situation and I will leave it up to her to prove that she can fix this country if that is her intent. If it is not, she will be hated even more than Marcos and Estrada and will suffer greatly for what she’s doing.
Advise to Arroyo:
Stop hunting small time oppositions. The 80 million Filipinos will forgive what you’re doing right now if you were to arrest, convict and execute the following: Imelda, Enrile, Honasan, et al. These ass holes are the reason why this country is confused and undisciplined. There is no turning back now Arroyo, your only option is Martial Law to deliver swift changes we all want. If you don’t declare Martial Law soon, you will not last this year.
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 12:57 am
I defintely agree, ryebosco!!!
I just would want to add that Ms Diokno is very right when she admiitted that that there is a big problem among the opposition ranks. The DISUNITY among there ranks. Even their idea on what to do after Gloria is so scattered.Wala ka talagang makitang koncretong plano o scenario on how the government will run if Gloria is thrown out. And even who will lead teh nation after Gloria. And there is no assurance at all if life will be better once Gloria is booted out.
So you cannot really blame the majority for not going with the opposition! Even when there noble persons in that like Ms Diokno.
on their side. Because as you have said, the opposition is over polluted with garbage personalities.
I suggest Ms Diokno would lead the movement for good governance instead of Cory. Im sure mas dadami pa ng sasama sa rally kung si Ms Diokno and nag lilead.
I was wondering why the media is not focusing much on less or not tainted at all personalities like Ms Diokno. Puro naka focus kay Cory whose crebility has just gone down to the gutter , even worst than Gloria .
naykika
February 28th, 2006 at 2:30 am
Our civil liberties ours to keep, Madame Diokno. We can not surrender them to anyone. Not to the government of the day. They are sacred. Governments come and go. No matter how good. No matter how tyrannical. Our Liberties stays. But we also can not allow a few among us to use such Liberties for their own selfish interest. As you have observed lately, aside from the genuine protests and calls for Ms Arroyo ouster, there are elements in our society taking advantage of such crisis to further their own interest and their own ambitions. Some even have to dance with the devil to achieve them. They may deny them, and to the end no one but only those involved will know the truth, as experienced will show us. Civil Liberties and rights and freedom can be enjoyed by all only in a fair and just society. Meantime we will keep ours until we get to the point of time when our society approaches that time. And we will keep on fighting..
tagaisla
February 28th, 2006 at 2:45 am
friend ryebosco and rego – I feel saddened that you had to promote views contrary to those of Ka Pepe’s, on the thread where mam Carmen’s speech was posted to honour his birth anniversary.
i think the essence of ka pepe’s shining contribution to our nation was the promotion of civil liberties- protecting you and i from the powers of the state. part of this includes our rights to assembly, freedom of speech etc. civil liberties is for everyone to enjoy, even the people whom we villify the most. his stand on civl liberties had protected scores of people during the Marcos era, and his legacy continues with the institutions he help set-up, or was part of.
now that’s out of the way, id’ like to respond to your points.
ryebosco -Do you really think that the entrenched, wealthy few who rule this country (most of whom are corrupt) will let that happen? Do you really expect them to share power and wealth for the good of the 80 million plus Filipinos? Be realistic and honest.
tagaisla – tunay, let’s be realistic and honest, but i’d also like to be hopeful. we can always ask for power and wealth to be shared, which of course would not work (but if we try to ask nicely – preety preety please with cream and sugar on top – who knows, baka ibigay nga?). if asking doesn’t work, then we need to claim our entitlements such as good governance, working social services, protection of our civil liberties. cliche siguro but if you won’t do it for yourself, then do it for your children or younger relatives. if we are prevetned from claiming these, then we can give it to ourselves…
ryebosco said – Again, I want what you want Mrs. Diokno. But right now, I don’t really care if Arroyo’s family is guilty of jueteng or cheated in the last election. I’m sick of protests, I’m sick of seeing Imee side by side with Butz Aquino, I’m sick of Mrs. Aquino next to Jinggoy, I’m sick of Mrs. Aquino’s brother plotting in the background, I’m sick of the fact that Imelda roamed free in luxury after 1986 and her children holding government positions, I’m sick of paid protesters in the streets of Manila, etc. etc. etc….I’m sick and tired of it.
Ninoy is dead, he could have been our savior. Out of the 80 million Filipinos, Arroyo is the only one who stood and said, “I control the situation.” This is taking it out of context but right here, right now, she does control the situation and I will leave it up to her to prove that she can fix this country if that is her intent. If it is not, she will be hated even more than Marcos and Estrada and will suffer greatly for what she’s doing.
tagaisla – i emphatise with you – tutoo nga ang kasabihan that politics makes strange bedfellows – imagine imee marcos in last night’s fort bonifacio action? i feel sorry that you are sick and tired of the whole thing. talagang may-burnout, and the lucky few who can physically escape this reality – nag-iibang bayan usually. paano naman ang mga hindi makaalis, or can’t zonk out of this reality? i sincerly wish you’d be able to find a way to recharge yourself.
On your 2nd par, GMA has the control, at the risk of endangering civil liberties, we could be on the brink of martial rule, or even if it is not declred, just the fact that she was able to declare soe would already impact on how authorities would respond to crticis and those who spouse a different view. But you are willing to take this path as long as it spells economic benefits for all. Maybe many of Pinoys would agree with you, maybe a few. I certainly won’t. We have no guarantees that if she rules with an iron fist, our lives will be bettered. Besides again the point that she lied, cheated and “reallocated” money to ensure her victory during the last elections does not indeed promote trust nor transparency.
rego, i agree on your points about disunity, and i believe mam Carmen has shared what is at stake if the opposition doesn’t get it’s act together – we put at risk a the future “nation for our children”. but i believe that more importantly, politicians and movements can only do so much. in the end, it is the exercise of juan and juana delacruz’s right to act, to claim, to demand, to create – that matters most. and the challenge lies in how can we encourage others to act……. for Cory i somewhat share some of your feelings – as President she has lost credibility as she could have exerised land reform in her family’s land holdings, but did’nt do so. but for me she hasn’t lost her credibility as a person, i beleive she is sincere, and she has never lied, nor have cheated, nor have put civil liberties under threat.
salamat po..
bernardocarpio
February 28th, 2006 at 4:29 am
We just want opposition that is strictly composed of real people led by a true leader if he or she is an unknown personality the better. The reason why some of our countrymen could not support the the so-called united opposition is because of its composition. We don’t want these people that were in power before and did nothing for the past twenty years to be put back in the pedestal again and make us feel that we owe our freedom from them. If Gloria is ousted so be it but let’s not allow anyone affiliated with Marcos, Cory, Ramos,Estrada, CPP-NPA and Gloria serve in that government. If we want a pro-people government then let’s dismantle the political dynasties that are still existing in other regions of the country. They have become warlords already and act like they own their own respective town. What have we benefitted from our congressmen today? Nothing. We could not even see where their respective pork barrel go. If you want to change the Executive please include the Legislative too with no exceptions.
ms. bayani
February 28th, 2006 at 4:44 am
THANK YOU MRS. DIOKNO FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO CONTINUE TO GIVE US THE INSPIRATION AND THE LIGHT….
SOMEDAY….SOMEHOW….THE RULING CORRUPT TRADITIONAL POLITICIANS AND THEIR FAMILIES….THE OLIGARCHY… WILL BE HUMBLED AND DEFEATED OF THEIR MAJOR STRANGLEHOLD OF ALMOST EVERY FACET OF OUR DAILY LIVES….
….RIGHT NOW…THE PEOPLE ARE PERCEIVED TO BE TIRED, WEAK, DISILLUSIONED, DISGUSTED AND HOPELESS AT THEIR CONTINUING BARRAGE OF THIEVING, LYING, CHEATING AND BETRAYING….
…..BUT IN THE END….THE COMMON PEOPLE WILL TRIUMPH IN BRINGING ABOUT THE KIND OF SOCIETY THEY DESERVE TO HAVE….BECAUSE THE FILIPINOS ARE INHERENTLY INTELLIGENT, TALENTED AND PERSEVERING…..BECAUSE THE FORCES OF GOOD ALWAYS TRIUMPH IN THE END…BECAUSE THAT IS THE UNIVERSAL DICTUM AND THE REASON FOR BEING.
…..EVIL CAN ONLY FLOURISH AS MUCH….AND PEOPLE CAN ONLY TAKE SO MUCH OF IT….UNTIL FINALLY, THE VICTORY OF WHAT IS RIGHT WILL TRIUMPH OVER WRONG.
MitaMS
February 28th, 2006 at 5:47 am
We, the people did our part. What happened to the magnanimous gift of support we gave different politicians and causes in the past?
No one is being prosecuted for all the corruption we cried about in the past…and we all KNOW it happened…or do we? Different presidents have come and gone since 1986…but this has not been addressed. Problem is, no one can seem to prove antyhing…no one is in jail for those crimes of corruption.
Our system is broken and it hasn’t been fixed because majority of us, from top to bottom, does not respect, obey and enforce our laws. Who among us will admit to this?
We’ve all heard of “pakiusap”…that’s corruption, that’s skirting the law…
With things the way they are right now and before we even try to change horses in the middle of the stream, let’s contemplate the different scenarios of AFTER…we pick up from scratch…all over again..with the same faces…eventually, we’ll have the same issues, with a different face attached to them…
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 6:39 am
Taga Isla,
Maraming maraming salamat din sayo !. It was a nicely written comment with full of sincerity. I even have a feeling that you are my freind who teaches in Ateneo University. Kasi malaki ang pagkakapareho ng views nyo at style of writing..
Anyways, let go back to the topic ( baka ako maacuse ng grandstanding sa forum na eto)
Your stand is not very clear to me. I have to reread you comment but still its not that clear. Would you mind sharing to us your stand on the current political crisis? An d if my stand not that clear to you I woudl be more than willing share it to you too.
And hey, I wanted to assure that I still subscribe to the Ka Pepe ideals of civil liberties. He is one of very few politcal personalities that I really admired and idolizes until now. At never na nasira ang tiwala ko sa taong to…..
to_agol
February 28th, 2006 at 9:25 am
sawang sawa na ko sa hitsura ni GUYA! (GMA)
tagaisla
February 28th, 2006 at 10:14 am
slamat din rego, hindi po ako nagtuturo sa arneow
nugnit marami akong kaibigan na produkto ng institusyong ito.
simple lang ang aking posisyon (at akin lamang po ito),
1. i believe in rule of law, and the institutions that promote this e.g. legislative bodies and the tools to make this happen e.g. constitution
2. this has been disrupted by the flagrant violations around the last elections, where GMA lied, stole and cheated
3. there was an effort (still within the rule of law) to address this, but tyranny struck when the legislative, bribed by fertiliser funds, junked the effort to unseat GMA
4. furthermore, GMA has promoted a culture of deceit and displayed a ruthless path to preserve her power, even declaring the SOE when there was no clear threat (compared to the coup attempts during Cory’s time)
5. under the framework of rule of law, we should as a people address the flaws in the system by:
– forcing GMA to quit and hand over power to the vice (the idea to stick to her as there’s no alternative is lame.. like mam carmen i refuse to beleive a nation of 80 million could not produce a credible alternative;
– agree on a timetable for naitonal elections, within six months (no juntas or revoluntionary council; the left can play, so is the right and middle)
– provide the conditions for the conduct of fair elections (e.g. bring cases of corruption to the current COMELEC, and come up with a new set of officers, partly represented by civil society)
– to allow a level playing field, expenses should be capped for election campaign, to be audited (allow x number of radio or tv spots, no handbills or posters or banners, billboards)
– for the new government, focus on strenthening its moral accountability first (e.g. transparency as a way of working, addressing backlog of cases around corruption)
– addressing key problems around employment, livelihoods by tackling the issues of true agrarian reform (as compared to cosmetic); sustainable development and equity
– working on an overhaul of the current political system, not of getting rid of the legislative, but looking for means for it to be accountable, reviweing the systme of contracts to eliminate pork barrel etc.
iyon lang po…
MitaMS
February 28th, 2006 at 10:41 am
tagaisla,
i’m all for what you advocate. my question is – how do we force GMA to quit without violence, hurting the economy and the daily wage earner?
i cannot see her just quitting..it’s simply not in character.
about “moral” accountability…can we change that to just accountability or maybe integrity…moral has broad interpretations that can extend the personal. Truth is, morality is relative. Besides, people using religiosity for political purposes is disgraceful. It’s best to leave anything spiritual or religious in nature out of politics….let’s assume we have atheists in our populace and we have to respect their beliefs…or non-beliefs.
Who do you mean by civil society? Wil this be the usual faces? We really should include people outside of Metro Manila…give them a chance to rebuild the nation.
This could be considered way out there..but I’m serious. May I suggest moving the capital out of Manila to maybe Cebu – the oldest city in the country? Metro Manila has always been volatile and is not representative of the larger portion of the Philippines. I know this has historical implications…but in the long term, if it’s better for the country’s survival….it should be considered.
Another suggestion, de-politicizing the military. Where in the world will you find a military asking for defense from the people – it should be the other way around. Soldiers have to follow the chain of command, if they are not happy where they are and cannot work to make things better from within, they, like the rest of us, can quit and find a new career.
lokalokang matino
February 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
SINO DAW IPAPALIT? wow, that’s the line of the Marcos Loyalist?
20 years after, we’re here, we survived and many of us succeded? It is idiotic rationale to think, much more say that gloria is the only one who can lead this country.
Friends naman, open your eyes, your mind and widen your imagination, DOES IT MEAN THAT IF GLORIA DIES TODAY, YOU DIE TOO? Perhaps you will, but we will continue our lives happily without gloria.
Let me tell you, During the 2004 election, I wanted Lacson to win, But when gloria was declared winner in the early morning while the population was in deep sleep, I accepted her, I thought that,maybe she really won. Until Bunye appeared on TV with his left and right hand waving CDs of the GLORIA-GARCI TAPE, saying one is real the other is fake.
The rest is history, Garci hides, gloria denied, but ALAS Divine Providence interfere, Gloria Says “I AM SORRY”, what follows are denials,denials and denials, cover up and cover ups.
An innocent person will vigorously and emphatically incourage investigation, instead of denying and cover up. Then comes EO 464.
To the avid defenders of gloria, may I ask this simple question,
Why keep key people to speak of the TRUTH if the TRUTH is in your side?
Please dont tell me,, because of the economy and let us just move on.(This is a broken record already, I dont even remember who from Malacanang authored the line)
Please face the issues fare and square instead of names calling!!!
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Tag-isla,
Maraming Salamat uli sa pagpapunlak sa aking katanungan….Halos magkapareho naman ang gusto nating mangayari eh kaya lang malaki talaga ang pagkakaiba sa mag paraan kung papano natin makakamit ang pag-unlad eh…So eto naman ang akin (in the interste of clearer discourse I choose to just answer your lines of issues against Gloria the same way that I answered my very good freind ( the ateneo professor) kasi parehong pareho ang pagkasummarize nyo ng mga issues..
1. i believe in rule of law, and the institutions that promote this e.g. legislative bodies and the tools to make this happen e.g. constitution
>>> we are alined on this!
2. this has been disrupted by the flagrant violations around the last elections, where GMA lied, stole and cheated
>>> I find this inconsistent with the first one.. Para sa akin this is still under the category of allegations. Basically if you follow the constitution and rule of law, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty , and there is even a phrase beyond “reasonable doubt ” added to that.
3. there was an effort (still within the rule of law) to address this, but tyranny struck when the legislative, bribed by fertiliser funds, junked the effort to unseat GMA.
I dont agree with the term “tyranny” . I think its overly exaggerated Tyranny means A government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power or arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. I cannot say the same to current administartion of Arroyo.
The impeachment case was not rejected outright. There was a televised proceedings and the Justice comitte level. For everybody to see And it was rejected out of technicality. Even so, there was a plenary voting that can overide justice comitte decision. It was carried out openly and in full view of the public and still it was voted out. And the main reason and everybody knows, was that there were so many opposition congressman that were absent during the voting.
Now, you believe that there were bribery committed by Arroyo. Again this needs to be proven in court as possible, if we are to follow the constitution. and rule of law. If those opposition congressmen that were absent were bribed. They really should come out and tell the public or even the court to convict Arroyo of such alleagtions. Now if the allegation is true and the congressmen that received the bribe don’t want to come out. Should n’t be these congressmen shoudl also take our ire.
4. furthermore, GMA has promoted a culture of deceit and displayed a ruthless path to preserve her power, even declaring the SOE when there was no clear threat (compared to the coup attempts during Cory’s time).
>>>>>My initial reactions about the decalaration of SOE, was that it was an overeaction. Because the coup plot ( allegedly lead by Gen Danilo Lim) was already thwarted. But when there was a mutiny in the marines, which means that teh threat to teh government is conituing, I believe the Arroyos action is justified. And on top of that the public really knows that the destabilzation efforts has really grown out of proportion and the opposition has became so abusive. It seems to me that Arroyo was pushed or antagonized so much by the opposition to such action.
It is healthy for the opposition or any citizens to group together to air their issues against the governement. But everybody knows too that this can be done in a peaceful and orderly manner that will not cause inconveniece to the rest of the citizenry’s way of living and much more harm the nation as a whole especially the econony. The government has designated places were they can air side, we a have a lot forum such this PCIJ blog. To air our grievances, the courts are operating….
There so many debates about the legality of the Declaration. This is good and healthy for the country. Im very sure the country will be benifit much from these debates . But I am also glad that there is an avenue to end this debate. The Supreme Court! As a matter of fact
several lawyers group were reported to be going to the Supreme Court already. And the government has decalred that they are open to be challenged in Supreme Court.
5. under the framework of rule of law, we should as a people address the flaws in the system by:
– forcing GMA to quit and hand over power to the vice (the idea to stick to her as there’s no alternative is lame.. like mam carmen i refuse to beleive a nation of 80 million could not produce a credible alternative;
>>>> I definitely don’t agree that GMA should be “forced” to quit. I emphasized the word forced. Because that is very much in conflict to Ka Pepe’s ideals of Civil Liberty. We are suposed to condem force applied to any body especailly the government applying force on us. Isn’t that applicable to the government as well? And to Mrs Arroyo as a president and as a person? Mrs Arroyo has Civil Liberties too!
we can also issue a call to resign. But never ever force her. Resignation is her personal prerogative. we can not dictate that to her.Applying forced to Mrs Arroyo is defintely a mob. A harrasment. We dont want to be mob, right? we dont want to be harrased right?
Now Mrs arroyo has repeated issue dher answer to teh numerous call for her resignation. And that is she will never resign.
So my very personal take on this is that, Mrs Arroyo should never be forced to quit. She should be accorded with all the benifits of Rule of Law and Civil Liberties! Just like any other citizens.
There is a defined process in the constitution to prosecute a sitting president. The impeachment. And that should be followed at all cost!. No alibis, please!
– agree on a timetable for naitonal elections, within six months (no juntas or revoluntionary council; the left can play, so is the right and middle).
>>> Its good that you still believe in elections. But if the impeachment is followed there is no need to hold a national elections. The Law succesion states that the Vice President take sover once the President is convicted.
And most importantly, holding elections will cost us a lot of money. So where will we get the money for that sicne our goevernemnt is bankcrupt.
So pushing for impeachment and following the rule of sucession is more practical for me! Saves cost, saves energy , save lawlessness! Result strengthen and working system of government
– provide the conditions for the conduct of fair elections (e.g. bring cases of corruption to the current COMELEC, and come up with a new set of officers, partly represented by civil society)
I believe that the need to reform the electroal system is very very urgent before we hold any election. Computerized it. Thats why I really really feel bad that we are so busy with the political bickering that the computerization program of COMELC is derailed. If only the opposition is not wreaking havoc in their greedy desire to take over power , by this time should be focusing on the computerization program by now.
Now election season is past approaching and Im sure we should expect a deluge of issues again that will forced the county to its bended knees.
Why dont we just work and focus on computerization of election now!
– to allow a level playing field, expenses should be capped for election campaign, to be audited (allow x number of radio or tv spots, no handbills or posters or banners, billboards).
>>>> I am alined with you on this.
– for the new government, focus on strenthening its moral accountability first (e.g. transparency as a way of working, addressing backlog of cases around corruption)
>>>Lets be realistic, omit the moral. Just accountibility would be perfect. There is no set standard for moralilty, there is no law for that ,no yardstick for measurement and that makes it higly debatable. ( and hilig hilig pa naman ng mag pinoy mag debate)
– addressing key problems around employment, livelihoods by tackling the issues of true agrarian reform (as compared to cosmetic); sustainable development and equity
>>>> we are very much alined here.
– working on an overhaul of the current political system, not of getting rid of the legislative, but looking for means for it to be accountable, reviweing the systme of contracts to eliminate pork barrel etc.
>>>>> I have no problem with this.
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
lokalokang matino said,
February 28, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
SINO DAW IPAPALIT? wow, that’s the line of the Marcos Loyalist?
20 years after, we’re here, we survived and many of us succeded? It is idiotic rationale to think, much more say that gloria is the only one who can lead this country.
Friends naman, open your eyes, your mind and widen your imagination, DOES IT MEAN THAT IF GLORIA DIES TODAY, YOU DIE TOO? Perhaps you will, but we will continue our lives happily without gloria.
=========================================
Still you di not answer the question. Why not just answer teh question directly at wag ng mag patumpik tumpik pa. Just give us the name and will take it from there.
Kung okay ka lang sa buhay na walang kasigurahan, thats fine! Pero hindi kami okay sa ganyan eh. we can never just let our children and grand children and relatives suffer for such a big risk. Very competitive ang panahon ngayon. One minute mistake can left behind our loved one and make teh recovery to difficult.
You said:
Friends naman, open your eyes, your mind and widen your imagination, DOES IT MEAN THAT IF GLORIA DIES TODAY, YOU DIE TOO? Perhaps you will, but we will continue our lives happily without gloria.
I turn the table on you:
If Gloria stays in power will you die???? What so urgent of removing Gloria ba, my freind?????That you want us to just do it without really making sure if our lives will be better after Gloria is removed!!!!!!!
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
If Gloria stays in power will you die????
— nope we will not.. i think.. but our monies will be needlessly spent to prop up her failing presidency.. now it might be ok by you if she decides to raise that vat again by 2 percent.. but for me its a death blow.. coz for sure it will affect by biz.. im just barely keeping it open now..
What so urgent of removing Gloria ba, my freind?????
— easy ans.. billions of our tax payers money.. nu ba ginagawa nya now.. propaganda di ba? to convince all those who hate her not to hate her.. and nu ginagamit nya pang convince.. pera mo? if pera mo gagamitin mas ok di ba?
that you want us to just do it without really making sure if our lives will be better after Gloria is removed!!!!!!!
–not necessarily.. but by golly at least it will feel good..
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
by rego..
The impeachment case was not rejected outright. There was a televised proceedings and the Justice comitte level. For everybody to see And it was rejected out of technicality. Even so, there was a plenary voting that can overide justice comitte decision. It was carried out openly and in full view of the public and still it was voted out. And the main reason and everybody knows, was that there were so many opposition congressman that were absent during the voting.
— do u think that technicality wasnt the result of one of the presidents minions interfering with what should be a purely an opposition let excercise? mssrs marcoleta and that other guy were all the presidents lackeys.. mahirap po tlga pag nag bubulagan ka sa mga nakikita mo di ba?
as for her fellow ka partido in congress.. do u honestly think that those crooks will vote against their boss out of conscience? get real man.. sila yung mga nakinabang sa fertilizer funds no.
Now, you believe that there were bribery committed by Arroyo. Again this needs to be proven in court as possible, if we are to follow the constitution. and rule of law. If those opposition congressmen that were absent were bribed. They really should come out and tell the public or even the court to convict Arroyo of such alleagtions. Now if the allegation is true and the congressmen that received the bribe don’t want to come out. Should n’t be these congressmen shoudl also take our ire
— again.. pansinin mo nlang bakit me eo 464? bakit yaw nilang pa testify mga government officials sa senate inquiry.. pag malinis ka kasi kahit na binabastos ka pa sa senate dadalo ka just to clear your name di ba?.. bakit sila takot ma interview ng senado?
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
penpenpen88 said,
February 28, 2006 @ 7:35 pm
If Gloria stays in power will you die????
– nope we will not.. i think.. but our monies will be needlessly spent to prop up her failing presidency.. now it might be ok by you if she decides to raise that vat again by 2 percent.. but for me its a death blow.. coz for sure it will affect by biz.. im just barely keeping it open now..
>>>>>>>
Mrs Arroyo presidency is failing in your view because you desperately wanted it to fail. If you only air you issues to the governement in a lawful, peaceful and ordely manner. Prosecute her in the proper court then our monies will not be wasted at all.
The 2 percent EVAT was already challenge debated in the congress, challenged in the supreme court so there is no need for a debate here. Now if it has a negative impact to your business, personal mong problema yan. and you and you alone can do something about that. If this your reason of why do you want Gloria out right away. Selfish naman yata ….The country should move on based on teh greater good of teh public not on the good of very few…
What so urgent of removing Gloria ba, my freind?????
– easy ans.. billions of our tax payers money.. nu ba ginagawa nya now.. propaganda di ba? to convince all those who hate her not to hate her.. and nu ginagamit nya pang convince.. pera mo? if pera mo gagamitin mas ok di ba?
>>>> Obviously hindi pera mo lang ang pera ang ginagamit….You know all the charges of corruption is just by prue inuendoes and people power. Gather all your evidences and file a case. Prosecute her.
that you want us to just do it without really making sure if our lives will be better after Gloria is removed!!!!!!!
–not necessarily.. but by golly at least it will feel good…
no wonder your number is not increasing, tipping point in your favor is not happening. becaus eyou dont want to articulate you plans and ho will that make the lives our the majority better.
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Mrs Arroyo presidency is failing in your view because you desperately wanted it to fail. If you only air you issues to the governement in a lawful, peaceful and ordely manner. Prosecute her in the proper court then our monies will not be wasted at all.
— U seem to fail to grasp the fact the i silently..supported her acendancy into office.. even though the manner by which it was done was at best stupid.. coz in her i see finally a person qualified to really run the country.. but.. wen someone says she will not run and then backtracks .. someone who says not one of her family will run then backtracks.. well it will kinda give you doubts as to whether she’s trustworthy ryt? i didnt want her desperately to fail.. i just wanted her to be fair..
— what is fair .. is it fair to tax us to the brink and then let her minions to wantonly smuggle goods, not only goods but also fly by night foreigners who directly compete with us..dump cheap smuggled goods on the market.. who pay no taxes.. who is not answerable to anyone.. and if anyone does question them.. lagay lang ang katapat.. ganun ba ang policiya ng isang fair na pangulo?? pinatay na nga ni tabako yung manufacturing natin eh.. itong si pandak yung small and medium enterprise naman papatayin nya.. do u understand all this? kami mga negosyante pilit lang na pinapalakad mga biz namen kasi kawawa naman mga trabahador namin if nagsara kami.. but instead na tulungan kami mga dayuhan ang tinutulungan at kaming mga legit ang tinatax.. fair??
–As for prosecuting her in the proper courts.. just in case you havent been living here for a while.. its been done.. but minamaniobra ng mga tao nya eh.. tapos sasabihin nyang technicality lang.. eh tao naman nya in the first place ang gumawa ng unang bogus complaint na yan di ba? fair?? now the question i pose to u is this.. how can u play fair when the other side isnt.. talk bout fair play… its all b.s.
rego
February 28th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
– do u think that technicality wasnt the result of one of the presidents minions interfering with what should be a purely an opposition let excercise? mssrs marcoleta and that other guy were all the presidents lackeys.. mahirap po tlga pag nag bubulagan ka sa mga nakikita mo di ba?as for her fellow ka partido in congress.. do u honestly think that those crooks will vote against their boss out of conscience? get real man.. sila yung mga nakinabang sa fertilizer funds no
>>>Oww common. We were able to impeach Erap before even if he has the majority in the congress. so that means impeachment i ver doable. There are administration congressman that started to defect to eth pro impeachment camp. It was gaining ground Ang problema absent yung ibang mga opposition congressman like Imee Marcos during pleanry voting.
So sino ba ang nagpatalo sa impeachment, eh di yung opposition din mismo. Tapos ngayon kami ang nag bulag bulagan? The proceedingw as fully televized and every body saw it. Thats why when the opposition called for people power. Nilangaw sial sa EDSA ! Kasi matalino na ang amg kamihan sa mga mamayanan. Hindi na po basta basta napapadala sa undyok ng opposition.
Obviously the oppositioned wanted the impeachment to fail. Ayaw naman talaga nila sa impeachment sa simula pa eh. But later on, pumayag din sila. But still they reallly wanted it to fail to generate synphathy from the people at para magka people power. Obviously sial ang nagbulagbulagan sa totoong pagiisip ng karamihan.
Before, I woudl comment about Marcoletta , I just wante dto make sure that you are 100% its Marciletta. kasi amy nag fiel nga case agiant Dinky Soliman that won an indicment against her. So checkmo mun at balikan mo ako kung 100% sure ka na.
– again.. pansinin mo nlang bakit me eo 464? bakit yaw nilang pa testify mga government officials sa senate inquiry.. pag malinis ka kasi kahit na binabastos ka pa sa senate dadalo ka just to clear your name di ba?.. bakit sila takot ma interview ng senado?
I am not her to defend EO 464, thats teh job of the government. And I believe this is being challenge din the SC already. But still the bottoline is, the silent majority is waiting for the charges of corruption be substantiited and proven in court. Other wise , all those charges are just innuedos.
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
The 2 percent EVAT was already challenge debated in the congress, challenged in the supreme court so there is no need for a debate here.
— question.. who dominates congress? senate? who stands to benefit from an increase in taxes? if you happen to know what our budget is this year.. take 30 percent of that.. coz thats the amount that will just disappear because of corruption.. sa plagay mo kanino mapupunta yung perang yan?
please dont look at things at face value.. lotsa underlying implications yan..
problema kasi satin sabihin lang satin masama iilag na tau.. dapat malaman natin bakit..
Now if it has a negative impact to your business, personal mong problema yan. and you and you alone can do something about that. If this your reason of why do you want Gloria out right away. Selfish naman yata …
— mag research ka naman.. biz was down 30 percent last year.. maybe if mutinational ka walang epek sau yun.. but 30 percent is alot for us poor folk.. i think im entitled to be selfish.. even if u compute it sinusweldo ko lang sya ng .0000001 percent.. ako parin ay nag cocontribute sa sweldo nya.. so obligado syang i satisfy yung daing ko.. siguro if were not in dire straits ryt now.. i might have waived that right.. but its crunch time.. if di nya kaya in control yung smuggling at ung mga illegal aliens then i must excercise my right to find someone who will ..
.The country should move on based on teh greater good of teh public not on the good of very few…
— dyan ka mali.. sure for the greater good of the many.. but not at the expense of the few.. coz in a democracy all men are created equal.. wlaang nakakaangat sa iba..
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Oww common. We were able to impeach Erap before even if he has the majority in the congress. so that means impeachment i ver doable. There are administration congressman that started to defect to eth pro impeachment camp. It was gaining ground Ang problema absent yung ibang mga opposition congressman like Imee Marcos during pleanry voting
— toink erap was not impeached he was ousted.. wla syang sinulat na nag resign sya.. up til now me verdict na ba sa plunder nya? what ever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty..naki konchaba lang ang supreme court ke gloria.. dats called bending the law to fit the purpose..
Before, I woudl comment about Marcoletta , I just wante dto make sure that you are 100% its Marciletta. kasi amy nag fiel nga case agiant Dinky Soliman that won an indicment against her. So checkmo mun at balikan mo ako kung 100% sure ka na.
— come on.. in a country where a president steals from the people blind and is still being supported by mindless suckups what do u expect..? =) sabi nga ni benigno.. get real philippines..
the silent majority is waiting for the charges of corruption be substantiited and proven in court. Other wise , all those charges are just innuedos.
— pssst.. im one of the silent majority.. just in case you want to know lang.. but while waiting y dont i let my opinions be heard di ba? im entitled to it..
So sino ba ang nagpatalo sa impeachment, eh di yung opposition din mismo. Tapos ngayon kami ang nag bulag bulagan? The proceedingw as fully televized and every body saw it. Thats why when the opposition called for people power. Nilangaw sial sa EDSA ! Kasi matalino na ang amg kamihan sa mga mamayanan. Hindi na po basta basta napapadala sa undyok ng opposition.
— toink agen.. who filed ba the first complaint and who seconded it? all glorias lackeys.. what complaint was found lacking in substance? the complaint of gloria’s lackeys..
— senate began investigating the garci incident the fertilizer scam.. who came out with e0 464 and prevented the generals and this dar sec to testify…
— nilangaw nga ba o pinigilan… just in case for your sake nilangaw nga.e bat takot si gloria sa kakaunting taong komokontra sa kanya? paranoid dili sya?
tambuli
February 28th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
sino ba ang silent majority?? nobody can say for sure di ba?? pero what is evident is that gloria is a failure as a leader, she is just lucky to ba around up to now. that pp1017 is short of declaring martial law, who the hell is lumibao to even suggest that editorial policies be submitted first before being published, isnt that some form of censorship?? how can u say u can speak freely if there is censorship?? grabe na to. very reminiscent of martial law diba? at least marcos did everything with legal cover … mrs arroyo is not even close to that, what about the ban on rallies?? no laws should be passed abridging our bill of rights, that is enshrined in our constitution, bakit mo ibabawal ang mga rallies or public assemblies? is the government so afraid of the people that it swore to protect? parang fortress na ang malacanang …. is gloria and the government one and the same? let us not forget that gloria was hired by the people to manage our country, if and when she fails, it is the right of the people who hired her to fire her!!
sandwich_ed
February 28th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
silent majoruty? so were all gonna sit and watch here until Gloria gains momentum with this PP1017? if there was one mistake that the people committed 30 yrs ago, it was that they just sat and watched as the dictator slowly stripped the people of its basic civil liberties. we must not commit the sam mistake again.
penpenpen88
February 28th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
yup… dont just blab like benigno.. be like nike.. just do it.. =) vive l’liberte
lokalokang matino
February 28th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
Nakakatawa talaga, blind followers will always find ways to avoid valid issues, go in circles, put the blame to others, but never face the issues
intelligently and straight forward.
For them the best defense is mudling, blaming and turning the table upside down, — an attitude of an individual empty of positive argument.
Till then, no further comment, Next please.
MitaMS
March 1st, 2006 at 12:02 am
CENSORSHIP. sino ba talaga ang na-censor? sige pa naman ang daily triubune…ninez cacho is still quoted in newspapers…maria resa said they are still conducting reports like they always have…
=======
lokaloka…why don’t you face the issue of impeachment straight? yun ang paraan para ma-resolve ito eh. ang problema naman, the opposition did not give even a half-hearted effort to make sure it was successful. sa umpisa pa lang, inunahan sila. but never mind that, what i’m saying is…..responisbilidad ng opposition yon na hindi nila ginampanan, pero hindi naman natin ina-acknowledge yon. basta tutukan na lang si gloria na lahat na ng puedeng ipangalan, tinawag natin. Walang mangyayari sa ganun, kasi petty squabbling lang yon.
sinabi naman nyang resigning is not an option so ano pang kelangan? the ball is in the court of the opposition. we always forget…this problem is a political one…there are players who should be working to resolve it. kaso ang nangyari ginulo lang ang buong bayan.
kung ang focus noon pa eh para sa ikabubuti ng bayan at hindi iisang TAO lamang na bastusan to the max hanggang eto na’t sumabog na ang mundo, mas meron tayong narating. diplomacy can get you places, but only if you have the focus clearly in mind.
jr_lad
March 1st, 2006 at 12:42 am
lokaloka, i’m glad you’ve finally noticed. don’t stress yourself too much. avoid spams. the same advise goes to pen.
lokalokang matino
March 1st, 2006 at 12:59 am
Di na sana ako sasagot, but some direct questions need answer, so here:
MitaMS naman, you refer to the impeachment? WOW, if the majority really wanted the TRUTH to come out, they should have help the very few opposition instead of resorting to technicalities, where were you?, just in case you dont know, the impeachment did not prosper due to technicality.
Huwag naman tayo magbulag-bullagan sa katotohanan.The truth is, the majority resorted to technicality because they are afraid of the TRUTH.
If only these HONORABLE CONGRESSMEN honored their position, and allowed evidences to be presented, the problem could have been settled. If gloria was impeached, why worry, constitutional succession is in place, this country has a living Vice-President, a certain Noli De Castro.
I may not like Noli De Castro,but since he is in the 1st line of succession, then lets follow the law. Mahirap ba yun unawain, Unless you dont like Noli De Castro!!!
Or if the evidences were not sufficient and truthfull, then let gloria rule till 2010. Ganon lang po yun kasimple.
Rego,
straight to the point at di patumpik-tumpik kung sinong pangalan, Well,
REGO, ikaw ang gusto kong kapalit ni gloria, what do you think Rego?
iyang
March 1st, 2006 at 1:30 am
yeheyyyyy ako din c REGO gusto ko kapalit ni GMA!!!! fave kc ni rego ang charge ehh, charge ng charge at prosecute..joke lng rego!!!
tagaisla
March 1st, 2006 at 2:06 am
MitaMS said,
February 28, 2006 @ 10:41 am
i’m all for what you advocate. my question is – how do we force GMA to quit without violence, hurting the economy and the daily wage earner?
i cannot see her just quitting..it’s simply not in character.
tagaisla- salamat MitaMS sa iyong post. again were a nation of 80m, meron naman sigurong makakpagisip ng paraan na makita ni GMA na wala na siyang option kungdi mag-resign. i build ang oppostion, palakasin ang areas of unity, work on areas of disunity. agree on a political color (pabor ako sa berde, hindi ito kulay ng aking utak, kungdi para sa bagong pagsibol) medyo may conotations na kasi ang yellow at pula. sa lahat ng public occassions na nandoon si mam, magsuot ng berde. huwag magbayad o idelay ng husto ang pagbayad sa buwis. etc etc
from mitaMS -about “moral” accountability…can we change that to just accountability or maybe integrity…moral has broad interpretations that can extend the personal. Truth is, morality is relative. Besides, people using religiosity for political purposes is disgraceful. It’s best to leave anything spiritual or religious in nature out of politics….let’s assume we have atheists in our populace and we have to respect their beliefs…or non-beliefs.
tagaisla – ok, siguro nga may religous overtones ang moral – sa akin kasi ineequate ko ang moral sa integrity. it’s hard to believe a killer talk about the sanctity of life.
mitaMs – Who do you mean by civil society? Wil this be the usual faces? We really should include people outside of Metro Manila…give them a chance to rebuild the nation.
tagaisla – siempre, part sila ng lipunan. i agree na kasama din dapat ang mga hindi taga Maynila
mitaMS – This could be considered way out there..but I’m serious. May I suggest moving the capital out of Manila to maybe Cebu – the oldest city in the country? Metro Manila has always been volatile and is not representative of the larger portion of the Philippines. I know this has historical implications…but in the long term, if it’s better for the country’s survival….it should be considered.
tagaisla – panalo itong ideya mo, out of the box ang dating. ang pangamba ko lamang ay baka maging sanhi pa ito ng masmalaking disunity.
MItaMs- Another suggestion, de-politicizing the military. Where in the world will you find a military asking for defense from the people – it should be the other way around. Soldiers have to follow the chain of command, if they are not happy where they are and cannot work to make things better from within, they, like the rest of us, can quit and find a new career.
tagaisla – agree with you 100% siguro una dapat conversant sila sa human rights law at civil liberties. on your last point though, enlsiting to the army has always been a traditional refuge for able bodied men and women who can’t find better employment opportunities, unless of course they have always wanted to be soldiers. saan pa sila pupunta?
tagaisla
March 1st, 2006 at 2:43 am
maraming salmat sa iyong sagot, at sa oras na ginugol mo para maisulat ito. hindi na kita masasagot ng tit4tat, marami na ring sumagot sa points mo. medyo daanan ko lang ang ilang salik.
rego >>> I find this inconsistent with the first one.. Para sa akin this is still under the category of allegations. Basically if you follow the constitution and rule of law, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty , and there is even a phrase beyond “reasonable doubt ” added to that.
tagaisla – for lying no need to prove, it’s on record – let’s start with the Dec 31 2003 proclamation that she won’t run for the presidency, admitting her administration was a source of disunity. but what to do if the institutions itself are flawed. medyo huwag tayong magpatali sa dogma, na dahil nandiyan iyan at ganito iyan ay in effect ganyan iyan. for example COMELEC, congress – all of them added to the problem that is Glora.
rego – I dont agree with the term “tyranny” . I think its overly exaggerated Tyranny means A government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power or arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. I cannot say the same to current administartion of Arroyo.
tagaisla – well i respect your opinion, i call a spade a spade.
rego -The impeachment case was not rejected outright. There was a televised proceedings and the Justice comitte level. For everybody to see And it was rejected out of technicality. Even so, there was a plenary voting that can overide justice comitte decision. It was carried out openly and in full view of the public and still it was voted out. And the main reason and everybody knows, was that there were so many opposition congressman that were absent during the voting.
tagaisla – going back to dogma, search your feelings, ika nga ni YOda kay luke… was the whole process as you witnessed it fair?
rego -Now, you believe that there were bribery committed by Arroyo. Again this needs to be proven in court as possible, if we are to follow the constitution. and rule of law. If those opposition congressmen that were absent were bribed. They really should come out and tell the public or even the court to convict Arroyo of such alleagtions. Now if the allegation is true and the congressmen that received the bribe don’t want to come out. Should n’t be these congressmen shoudl also take our ire.
tagaisla – read behind the lines of the news my friend – just the very conduct of overpricing that damn fertisliser, without contracts, and funds peersonally delivered by bagmen – isn’t this suspicious enough? Besides, the money was only given to those who were prepostioned.
rego -My initial reactions about the decalaration of SOE, was that it was an overeaction. Because the coup plot ( allegedly lead by Gen Danilo Lim) was already thwarted. But when there was a mutiny in the marines, which means that teh threat to teh government is conituing, I believe the Arroyos action is justified. And on top of that the public really knows that the destabilzation efforts has really grown out of proportion and the opposition has became so abusive. It seems to me that Arroyo was pushed or antagonized so much by the opposition to such action.
It is healthy for the opposition or any citizens to group together to air their issues against the governement. But everybody knows too that this can be done in a peaceful and orderly manner that will not cause inconveniece to the rest of the citizenry’s way of living and much more harm the nation as a whole especially the econony. The government has designated places were they can air side, we a have a lot forum such this PCIJ blog. To air our grievances, the courts are operating….
There so many debates about the legality of the Declaration. This is good and healthy for the country. Im very sure the country will be benifit much from these debates . But I am also glad that there is an avenue to end this debate. The Supreme Court! As a matter of fact
several lawyers group were reported to be going to the Supreme Court already. And the government has decalred that they are open to be challenged in Supreme Court.
tagaisla – guess who was just offered “lifetime tenures” as justices? i digress – again, it’s a matter of perceptions and our analysis of events. i respect your analysis. i just don’t agree 100%.
5. under the framework of rule of law, we should as a people address the flaws in the system by:
– forcing GMA to quit and hand over power to the vice (the idea to stick to her as there’s no alternative is lame.. like mam carmen i refuse to beleive a nation of 80 million could not produce a credible alternative;
>>>> I definitely don’t agree that GMA should be “forced” to quit. I emphasized the word forced. Because that is very much in conflict to Ka Pepe’s ideals of Civil Liberty. We are suposed to condem force applied to any body especailly the government applying force on us. Isn’t that applicable to the government as well? And to Mrs Arroyo as a president and as a person? Mrs Arroyo has Civil Liberties too!
we can also issue a call to resign. But never ever force her. Resignation is her personal prerogative. we can not dictate that to her.Applying forced to Mrs Arroyo is defintely a mob. A harrasment. We dont want to be mob, right? we dont want to be harrased right?
tagaisla – sabi nga nila friend rego stick and stones may break my bones but words would never harm me. what’s the use of “calls” if no one listens. dapat may karampatang action din kung ayaw makinig.
Now Mrs arroyo has repeated issue dher answer to teh numerous call for her resignation. And that is she will never resign.
So my very personal take on this is that, Mrs Arroyo should never be forced to quit. She should be accorded with all the benifits of Rule of Law and Civil Liberties! Just like any other citizens.
There is a defined process in the constitution to prosecute a sitting president. The impeachment. And that should be followed at all cost!. No alibis, please!
– agree on a timetable for naitonal elections, within six months (no juntas or revoluntionary council; the left can play, so is the right and middle).
>>> Its good that you still believe in elections. But if the impeachment is followed there is no need to hold a national elections. The Law succesion states that the Vice President take sover once the President is convicted.
And most importantly, holding elections will cost us a lot of money. So where will we get the money for that sicne our goevernemnt is bankcrupt.
So pushing for impeachment and following the rule of sucession is more practical for me! Saves cost, saves energy , save lawlessness! Result strengthen and working system of government
tagaisla – there could be some gaps in your logic, but again, its your interpretation.. there are some things more important than money. i’m not a hypocrite, money is important. but not always. so i beleive we should spend to clear upo once and for all these issues. if we don’t spend it on legitimate issues like this, it would only be used to pay our foreign debt or used to buy more “fertiliser”. the elections as i mentioned is flawed. like it or not, Noli has benifitted from this flaw. i still stick to my guns (i have a glock 19, a P90 which is not entirely legal, a 357 and 45 S&W, and a 45 -1911- and they all have good battery power and makes those nice lights and sounds when the trigger is depressed) or initial premise Noli leads caretaker governemnt for six months
I believe that the need to reform the electroal system is very very urgent before we hold any election. Computerized it. Thats why I really really feel bad that we are so busy with the political bickering that the computerization program of COMELC is derailed. If only the opposition is not wreaking havoc in their greedy desire to take over power , by this time should be focusing on the computerization program by now.
tagaisla – computersing the COMELEC was already fraught with fraud even before it started (dig up the news on the sneaky bidding) and this was supposedly for the 04 presidential elections.
Now election season is past approaching and Im sure we should expect a deluge of issues again that will forced the county to its bended knees.
Why dont we just work and focus on computerization of election now!
– to allow a level playing field, expenses should be capped for election campaign, to be audited (allow x number of radio or tv spots, no handbills or posters or banners, billboards).
>>>> I am alined with you on this.
– for the new government, focus on strenthening its moral accountability first (e.g. transparency as a way of working, addressing backlog of cases around corruption)
>>>Lets be realistic, omit the moral. Just accountibility would be perfect. There is no set standard for moralilty, there is no law for that ,no yardstick for measurement and that makes it higly debatable. ( and hilig hilig pa naman ng mag pinoy mag debate)
– addressing key problems around employment, livelihoods by tackling the issues of true agrarian reform (as compared to cosmetic); sustainable development and equity
>>>> we are very much alined here.
– working on an overhaul of the current political system, not of getting rid of the legislative, but looking for means for it to be accountable, reviweing the systme of contracts to eliminate pork barrel etc.
>>>>> I have no problem with this.
tagaisla – it’s not so bad, there are issues where we see eye to eye, but i’m also concerend on how you look at some issues. but i respect your right to look at issues the way you do.
salmat ulit sa pakipagpalitan ng kuro-kuro
medyo break na muna ako – sabado na ang balik – sa mga lahat ng mga nag post – at least you took the time to take part – seryoso man, kenkoy o pabalang, that’s already a small victory. sulat ni Douglas Adams ” thanks for all the fish”, dagdag ko – gusto ko sinaing na tulingan tapos iprito…. with matching kamatis at sinangag… demmit, magluluto na muna ako.. gnite
MitaMS
March 1st, 2006 at 2:57 am
Tagaisla,
So aprub. Puede ngang magkaisa pa din ang Pinoy, hanapin lang ang points of agreement.
Sa makatuwid, ang susi ng lahat ay palakasin ang oposisyon. Mahina talaga ang oposisyon kaya nandyan pa din si GMA. Yun naman ang mahirap – magulo sila eh…may kanya-kanyang agenda. Isa pa, wala talaga silang iisang lider na rerespetuhin ng lahat. Kalimutan na natin si Cory – yung isyu sa Luisita eh masyadong malaking impluensya para sya seryosohin ngayon.
Yung civil disobedience, hindi ako sang-ayon sa ngayon. Masasaktan ang negosyo at industriya…may long-term effect yan sa ekonomiya at sa manggagawa. Nung panahon ni Marcos puede kasi matagal na diktadura yon at talaga naman naghirap ang marami. Siguro meron pang mas magandang paraaan…
Yung Cebu as capital…serioso talaga yon. Tayong mga taga-Luzon ay hindi naging mabuting tagapangasiwa ng ating demokrasya…magulo masyado, madaming anggulo. Sa punto na lang ng lokasyon, mas maganda ang Cebu…baka makatulong sa problema ng countryside peace and development lalu na sa Mindanao. Puede pa naman maging financial capital ang Manila. It also won’t be the first time to transfer the capital….Quezon City noon ang capital nung bata pa ko. Hindi imposible…kung iisa-isahin lang ang pag-implement.
Baka meron pang ibang gustong sumingit sa usapan – SIGE LANG!
=============
Lokaloka,
eh ganun ang demokrasya talaga eh. dapat may check and balance…kung wala, sira ang sistema. at sira nga ang sistema, pero hindi lang iisang tao o mga politico ang may kasalanan…tayo din may responsibilidad dun. sino na ba sa atin ang sumulat o bumisita sa opisina ng mga congressman natin para sabihin sa kanila na ayaw natin ang pinagkakagawa nila. sino sa atin ang humingi ng accounting sa ating mga hinalal…as in accounting ha. eh mismong attendance ng mga congresista, hindi natin inaalam. basic yon, wala sila dun, wala sila magagawa para sa bayan.
the impeachment was unsuccessful because the opposition did not do their job of filing a good impeachment complaint. balikan mo, puro press con lang sila noon diba? inunahan sila ni Lozano…ang technicality na nangyari noon ay makupad sila, hindi naghanda..in short, THEY LET US DOWN. hinalal natin sila, trabaho nila ang magsilbi sa bayan….sa laki naman ng pork at mga ibang privilege nila…dapat
Kung gagawin naman nating mga mamayan ang trabaho nila..eh tayo na lang ang tumakbo. kung hindi nila kaya lumaban, wag silang tatakbo sa taumbayan para gawin ang trabaho nila. Simple lang, diba?
yan talaga ang demokrasya eh….dapat
i went on record in one other post here na gusto ko si noli. hanapin mo na lang…mahaba na tong comment ko.
rego
March 1st, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Unahin ko muna si Kaloka at si Iyang, Later na si Pen at Taga isla.
But of course kudos to MitaMS too, for taking the time to participate in the discussion… Binabasa ko rin ang mga comment mo. Cool !
OK, Kaloka and Iyang,
Flattered ako huh di ko alam na may presidential quality pala ako. kaya lang umm you will never like it pag ako naging presidente. kasi may Martial tendecies din ako eh….he he he.
But seriously, I really believe that while the opposition is hell bent in removing Mrs Arroyo. They should be very ready with replacement. At dapat ihayag na kung ano talaga ang plano at kung sino. Im sure that will help the the Silent Majority to decide and act…. The reason why the silent majority is not doing anything kasi wla naman pini present ang opposition. Segurista na ang karamihan sa ating mga kabayan eh. Which is understandable naman becuase you can just allow any mistake when it come to teh future of their love ones.
The opposition is so eager to oust Arroryo. But what if that happens tomorrow. Ready ba ang opposition sa replacement. At ang replacement ba na yan accpetable to the majority?
In our small group ( 6,0000 members worldwide) the general sentiments is that majority does n’t want Noli to replace Gloria for obvious reasons . But since my stand is on the rule of law, I dont my Noli taking over if Gloria. Then there is Drilon, sad to say hindi talaga mabango ang pangalan ng taong eto. Even sa akin naman. I dont know why. Maybe charisma. But its higly likely its the way he behave since the start of this crisis. There was no quality of being a statesman. Very trapo. Eh allergic na ang mag tao sa trapo eh.. Tapos may connection pa kay Cory ( inaanak eh) It doesn’t sit well if you look at the ” itang na loob trait ng mag Pinoy. Anyways, my point is that replacement is a very very big issue if not the top issue!
There one blogger who summarized that sentinment in another thread.
=======================================
“dmagdalene said,
March 1, 2006 @ 6:49 am
But give us a GOOD man or woman anytime, who in their lives is living a decent existence and is morally upright, and the citizenry will listen.”
=========================================
All that is needed is good man and Gloria is out. Otherwise Gloria stays!!!!
So my question is, is the opposition ready with their replacement.
.
rego
March 1st, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Pen and taga isla I’ll get back with you two tom. Promise. Its 1 am here and Im way past my bed time.
Just one thing, I really appreciate the time you put on this discourse. And I really believe that if we can conitine dicussing issues like this. Im sure we can trace out our differences and achive a common goal….
Pen baka kailangna mo ng kasosoyo…. he he he he he
Taga isla, talo kita, I had sinaing na tulingan ready yun nga lang
one wek na sya sa ref eh…ganyan kasi kami mag luto dito . good for one week tapos mcirowave or prito na lang every meal time… walang time eh
rego
March 1st, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Oh btw before I go to bed, share ko lang eto sa inyo, sinulat ng isa aming member saaming forum psoted ngayon ngayon lang…..
=======================================
the problem of politics ought to be the least of our problems when we
are not able to address the most basic issues…
health
nutrition
employment
basic education
income distribution
neither ideology, political affiliation, or the balance of power will
feed the hungry, educate the illiterate, provide jobs to the
unemployed, and bring vigor to those in poor health…
most people know this… in the end, our political problems appear to
be just another way we try to dim our senses against the real PAINS
that our people have to suffer.
matalino ang Filipino. alam nating niloloko lang tayo ng mga ito.
ang kanilang mga paniniwala at paninidigan ay magandang pakinggan,
magandang pag-usapan, kakaibang panoorin. subalit alam natin, pag nag-uwian na sila sa kanilang magagarang bahay (o sa kanilang mga
komportableng kumbento), sila ay kakain ng maayos at matutulog ng
mahimbing… samantalang ang karamihan sa mga kababayan natin, di pa nga nakakakain at walang maayos na tulugan… ang iba naman, hirap na hirap magtrabaho, mapagkasya lang ang maliit na kinikita.
makinig tayo sa hindi sinasabi ng ating kapwa mamamayan: hindi kami
nakikialam dahil mas mahalaga ang inaatupag namin — saan kukunin ang pagkaing pang-araw-araw at paano maiaahon ang aming mga anak.
politics and ideology are a luxury of those-who-have and entertainment
for those-who-have-not.
hindi naman napipikon ang Filipino o kung nagagalit man, sandali lang,
nakalimutan na…
walang magliligtas sa Filipino kundi ang sarili niya. hindi niya
kailangan ng panlipunang kristo — politiko, militar, o taga-simbahan
man siya.
ang kailangan niya ay ang sarili niya. ang komunidad niya ay hindi
lalawak sa kanyang sariling pamilya. ang pamayanan niya ay hindi
lalampas sa kanyang sariling tahanan o opisina.(at kung titingnan natin ng mabuti, ito ang ugat ng ating pagkakanya-kanya.)
wala sa namumuno ang kaligtasan.
but, sadly, it is slipping out of our OWN grasp as well…
ms. bayani
March 1st, 2006 at 3:59 pm
tagaisla….
i find your views and wisdom commendable…it speaks of a highly learned man with a sense of maturity, foresight and empathy with his environment…..may your tribe increase.
ms. bayani
March 1st, 2006 at 5:41 pm
rego…
i find the article you sent so far detached from realities…..
of course….NO MAN IS AN ISLAND AND NO MAN LIVES BY EATING BREAD ALONE….
the gov’t officials ruling over us has a far-reaching effect on us because they form the policies that affect our daily lives and the pulse of governance emanates from them….for example….what do you think is the percentage of our income that goes to corruption by way of additional taxes imposed or the cost of repair our vehicles incurred because of sub-standard streets because of again…corruption….etc…etc…etc.
may you tell whoever wrote that article to expand his knowledge by reading books about countries who are able to propel their respective countries to a place of peace and prosperity….suggested topics may be…the french revolution…US history….singapore story…etc…..
tambuli
March 1st, 2006 at 8:26 pm
dreamland kasi ata yan ….. go back to earth, mingle with the people, try to find out what they really feel, mahirap kac pag nakaharap kalang sa monitor ng computer mo ….. malayo yan sa realidad na hinaharap ng karaniwang mamamayan dito. getting by as it is is already a struggle, right now, the most that occupies the people’s mind are food, shelter and clothing, the basic necessities of life that has become more of a luxury now, to top it all, there is a threat of curtailment of our civil liberties, pulubi na nga tayo, ninanakawan pa at ginagago ng gobyerno, promotion pa nga ng gobyerno ang kumain nalang ng instant noodles
naykika
March 1st, 2006 at 10:03 pm
ms.bayani; also mention my dear maple leaf. we are young, very young, with only 35 millions people,but take a look where we are. our system of governance is the envy of many a nation, we are so laid back, not too many ever heard of us. we are not at war with anyone, not even with ourselves, considering that people who were bitter enemies in their own country live in perfect harmony and good neighbors as soon as they meet each other in our country. we are a first world. a member of
G 8. tell you one good story. got two friends here. recents immigrants. one a former marine, a purple heart medalist, the other an NPA biggie. one time on a drinking biege, after a heated argument the marine challenged the npa for a duel to the finish. could have obliged both, but reminded them this is Canada. They both become the best of friends. This a true story..
scud_1975
March 2nd, 2006 at 11:16 am
..and if i may add naykika,here in our adopted country Politicians are public servant. Pwede mo murahin ang mga politiko ng harap harapan. but we still maintain discipline,kahit mga Pinoy na suwail sa sariling bansa natin napapaamo. We stop at intersections pag may Stop Sign kahit walang nakakakita. There is peace, maswerte ka na makarinig ng isang busina ng sasakyan sa loob ng isang araw. There is order,lahat pinipilahan kahit pag akyat sa bus. Lahat ng service crews ng fast food nasa kusina lang, walang taga linis ng pinagkainan sa lamesa coz everyone is expected to clean his own mess.
There is equality, you cant find in any job advertisements mga discriminating words like “preferrably graduates of ganito, with pleasing personality, male/female, below 30,single etc”. All are equal, bata o matanda may ipin o wala. There is respect, we dont call the owner or president of the company “Sir” or Ma’m” , only by their names..but there is mutual respect.
What am i trying to say? Na ang pagbabago nasa sarili, ang Pilipino kahit saan mo dalhin kayang magbago..we do’nt need to tell them na gawin ang dapat gawin dahil may sarili tayong kusa. Kahit masyado malambot ang justice system dito bihira ang umaabuso. Minsan tuloy naiisip ko, di kaya mahal ng mga Pilipino ang Pilipinas?
naykika
March 2nd, 2006 at 10:46 pm
scud_1975 said Minsan tuloy naiisip ko, di kaya mahal ng mga Pilipino ang Pilipinas?
———————–
Mahal din.. pero lalo mong mamahalin habang namimiss mo. I may also add that what we are, were also brought about by our collective efforts through time and the great cooperation by all our politcians of all stripes. They may scream at each other during the question period, call each other names, and even insult ( that is their only place of immunity), but at the end of the day, they’ll dine together and ask each other family and go back again the next day all for our sake. Well, we pay them, and we install them on their job and they realized it.
I always emphasize in all my advise to the younger ones, to consider everyone an EQUAL, no matter what his/her stature in life. Not to idolize non- deserving heroes but instead try hard to be a hero to themselves and their families. And respect everyone, argue and debate, but maintain that respect. I hope they are listening..
rego
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 am
We just have to keep hoping, Naykika! Me? Im still optimistic that all the deabtes that is happening right no among our kabayans will be for the greater good of our dear country ( not the adpated one of course). I woudl even be very worried if there is no more debates . Becuase that would mean that peoepl does’n’t care anymore. Let our dirty politican debate among themselves,let our people discourse with gusto. Basta wag lang magsakitan, ok lang yan. Basta walang lang physical casulaties Ok lang yan. Let the rallyists rally, bast sa proper place lang and would not bother others who would not want to rally. Yung hindi na iimpede sa flow ng buhay ng iba gustong magtrabaho lang.
Let everyone criticize the government, and Mrs Arroyo.Hindi maganda yang walang mag cricitizes kasi mag aabuso na ang husto si Mrs Arroyo. Basta wag lang maging violent and wag ioverthrow by unconsititutional and unconstituioonal means.
Ang gusto ko lang na tayo medyo nakakantanda eh sawayin naman yung mag sumosobra na. Pag alam nating hindi na totoo yung mag pinagsasabi. Sawayin natin kasi mahirap din yung wla ng magsasawy sa mga yan. Lalo na ga talagang way out the law na yung mga sisnsabi. Baka maging out of control na eh.
Saludo ako sa lahat ng mag bloggers dito. I mean lahat!
Sa nakikit ako nag nagyon
rego
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:55 am
Penpen,
Eto na yung reply ko sa yo:
– —-U seem to fail to grasp the fact the i silently..supported her acendancy into office.. even though the manner by which it was done was at best stupid.. coz in her i see finally a person qualified to really run the country.. but.. wen someone says she will not run and then backtracks .. someone who says not one of her family will run then backtracks.. well it will kinda give you doubts as to whether she’s trustworthy ryt? i didnt want her desperately to fail.. i just wanted her to be fair..
>>>> I do undertsand your bitterness about Gloria. Valid naman yung mag issue s mo sa kany eh. I dont understand is your way of dealing with your issue with her. You seem to be supporting the chaos expouse by the opposition and you seem to believe that thet will resolve you issues.
Ako I did not vote for her except when she run for senator. But here I am being accused of idolizing her. I do not. And I dont care if she is voted out of office because ONLY if she is convicted in Impeachment court. My biggest concern is ths negative impact of the opposition’ s actions. I definitely do not subscribe uncosntitutional and unconsti tutional means that thay they are espousing. Because I dont believe that they are the reall solution to our problem.
It good if she resigns voluntarily. But if she don’t. What we are going to do. destabilize the whole country and make our people suffer. Liek eth suffering that we had before is not yet enough?
If she dont resign I believ there are other ways,and even better way.
—- i just wanted her to be fair….– what is fair .. is it fair to tax us to the brink and then let her minions to wantonly smuggle goods, not only goods but also fly by night foreigners who directly compete with us..dump cheap smuggled goods on the market.. who pay no taxes.. who is not answerable to anyone.. and if anyone does question them.. lagay lang ang katapat.. ganun ba ang policiya ng isang fair na pangulo?? pinatay na nga ni tabako yung manufacturing natin eh.. itong si pandak yung small and medium enterprise naman papatayin nya.. do u understand all this? kami mga negosyante pilit lang na pinapalakad mga biz namen kasi kawawa naman mga trabahador namin if nagsara kami.. but instead na tulungan kami mga dayuhan ang tinutulungan at kaming mga legit ang tinatax.. fair???
>>>>> Life is not fair. kahit saan ka ka mag punta. Kahit ako man eh dito sa kinalaglagyan ko eh it is really not fair….But is it fair fair to bother other much more ruin their lives becuase you feel l that policies of MRs Arroyo’s governement has’nt been very fair to you? That is what you are doing by supporting the chaotic move to oust Mrs Arroyo at all cost.
Dito sa New York, taxes are also very high. Mahal lahat. And if you look at the people who are on welfare na nagpapsarap lang sa taxes na c kin contribute mo sa gobyerno. Its really unfair. Sila nakahilat asa sa mga tirahan nila hanbang naghahantay ng checke nila galing sa gobyerno. tapos nakakaafford pang bumili ng drugs. Samantalang ikaw kayod kalabaw just to pay for you mortgage our your rent. Masakit sa pakiramdam yan.
Tanungin kita, gaano ka kasigururado na ang iapalit nyo kay Gloria would be fair to you? Na kung sigurado ka let everybody know and onc econvinced im sure lahta yan mag dadagsaan s a malacanang pa palitan si Glori….
-– mag research ka naman.. biz was down 30 percent last year.. maybe if mutinational ka walang epek sau yun.. but 30 percent is alot for us poor folk.. i think im entitled to be selfish.. even if u compute it sinusweldo ko lang sya ng .0000001 percent.. ako parin ay nag cocontribute sa sweldo nya.. so obligado syang i satisfy yung daing ko.. siguro if were not in dire straits ryt now.. i might have waived that right.. but its crunch time.. if di nya kaya in control yung smuggling at ung mga illegal aliens then i must excercise my right to find someone who will ..
>>>> I will not deny that there are policies of Mrs Arroyo that they has negatiev impact to other busenesses. A lot of tem are.
But youthink suporting a violent overthrow of her governemnt is teh right solution? I dont think so…. You dont even know kung sino ang iapalit eh.
-– –dyan ka mali.. sure for the greater good of the many.. but not at the expense of the few.. coz in a democracy all men are created equal.. wlaang nakakaangat sa iba..
>>>>>>Maybe im wrong, maybe not. But thatis walys the case eh. In our pusit for teh betterment of the majority , the few suffers…I can do nothingabout that. But still the answer is not by oeverthrowing Mrs Arroyo. without a clear plans on what what we are going to do next.
—– toink erap was not impeached he was ousted.. wla syang sinulat na nag resign sya.. up til now me verdict na ba sa plunder nya? what ever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty..naki konchaba lang ang supreme court ke gloria.. dats called bending the law to fit the purpose..
>>>>try to research the meaning of Impeach. I got one and it says ” To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal.” In that sense Erap was impeach.
Maybe what you are trying to tell us is that erap was not convicted when he was impeached. Dahildinag natapos yung impeachment case eh…
any way to me is inutil eto debate on Erap anymore. What can we get from it. he oalreayd being trie din court and no longer govern us. I nothingbut an ordinary citizen now an dhas nothing and doesn’t have impact on our live now. He not teh problem. The problem now is what todo with Gloria.
– toink agen.. who filed ba the first complaint and who seconded it? all glorias lackeys.. what complaint was found lacking in substance? the complaint of gloria’s lackeys..
who cares who did who an dwhat could have been done. bottomline is that the frist impeachment failed. But does that mean that ther si no change for eth 2 nd impeachment? does that mean that we shoudl staop using the process of impeachment beacause ther was a technical defect on the first one?
I dont think so. We have to make th eimpeachment process work. Otherwise lagi na alng tayong magkakagulo everytiem we encounter a problem with whoever is the sitting president.
– —senate began investigating the garci incident the fertilizer scam.. who came out with e0 464 and prevented the generals and this dar sec to testify…
Its natural for Gloria to come up with the defense. You can not control that. But doe sthat mean we have t stop prosecuting her and make her pay her crimes. The answer is no.
– nilangaw nga ba o pinigilan… just in case for your sake nilangaw nga.e bat takot si gloria sa kakaunting taong komokontra sa kanya? paranoid dili sya?
>>>> For a governemnt to survived , a ntural lang to controlin yung kaaway habang kokonti pa.
But the opposition has all the time to mount people power ngayon lang dineclare and SOE. May CPR noon pero the ooposition were given a designate dpalces to gather peopel that support here.
Kaya sian sab kung nilanagw dahil nung time na na talo ang impeachment sa congress. The oopeition when to EDSA lik eEscudero. peor wlang nag puntahan doon.
Isa pa I beleive kung may malki ang ang followers at supporter ng oppisotion. kahit mag decalre pa si Gloia ng SOE. Hindi ny amapipigilan ang mag tao. Think of the peopel of EDSA 1 . Kung ganun ba karami ang supporter ng Opposition mapipigilan ba yun ng SOE ni Gloria?
I dont think so!!!!!!!!!
rego
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:36 am
rego >>> I find this inconsistent with the first one.. Para sa akin this is still under the category of allegations. Basically if you follow the constitution and rule of law, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty , and there is even a phrase beyond “reasonable doubt ” added to that.
tagaisla – for lying no need to prove, it’s on record – let’s start with the Dec 31 2003 proclamation that she won’t run for the presidency, admitting her administration was a source of disunity. but what to do if the institutions itself are flawed. medyo huwag tayong magpatali sa dogma, na dahil nandiyan iyan at ganito iyan ay in effect ganyan iyan. for example COMELEC, congress – all of them added to the problem that is Glora.
>>>rego again.
You just have to presecute the president and if you wnat to presocute her based on that then go. But no way that she she shoudl be denied of her civil liberties because she lies.Kahit nga yung murderer na huling huli mo na sa sa akto ng pag patay eh may civil liberties eh. Onlythen our counrty will have order.
rego – I dont agree with the term “tyranny” . I think its overly exaggerated Tyranny means A government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power or arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. I cannot say the same to current administartion of Arroyo.
tagaisla – well i respect your opinion, i call a spade a spade.
>>>> rego again. same here.
rego -The impeachment case was not rejected outright. There was a televised proceedings and the Justice comitte level. For everybody to see And it was rejected out of technicality. Even so, there was a plenary voting that can overide justice comitte decision. It was carried out openly and in full view of the public and still it was voted out. And the main reason and everybody knows, was that there were so many opposition congressman that were absent during the voting.
tagaisla – going back to dogma, search your feelings, ika nga ni YOda kay luke… was the whole process as you witnessed it fair?
>>>>> I dont see nothing wrong with it and im sure teh reason why peoepl did not troop to EDSA when teh verdict was handed down becuas ethey believ that ther is nothing wrong with it.
I dont know if you are aware of the beginning of the EDSA2. PThe Impeachment proceeding was televised. And when the majority of the
senator refuse to allow for its opeining. Spontaneously people trooped to EDSA.
The majority velieve that there is no thing wrong with it. That the technicality wer being raised is valid. so they did protested it.
rego -Now, you believe that there were bribery committed by Arroyo. Again this needs to be proven in court as possible, if we are to follow the constitution. and rule of law. If those opposition congressmen that were absent were bribed. They really should come out and tell the public or even the court to convict Arroyo of such alleagtions. Now if the allegation is true and the congressmen that received the bribe don’t want to come out. Should n’t be these congressmen shoudl also take our ire.
tagaisla – read behind the lines of the news my friend – just the very conduct of overpricing that damn fertisliser, without contracts, and funds peersonally delivered by bagmen – isn’t this suspicious enough? Besides, the money was only given to those who were prepostioned.
>>>>>> yes it is supicicous. But you still have to validate your suspcion and get a court ruling.. That how an orderky society works
The fertilizer funds criminal are now being charged. So let it be. No neeed to put the whole country in chaos, destroy its economy just becuase there are peopel who mess up the fertilizer funds. The right thing to do is to prosecute them.
rego -My initial reactions about the decalaration of SOE, was that it was an overeaction. Because the coup plot ( allegedly lead by Gen Danilo Lim) was already thwarted. But when there was a mutiny in the marines, which means that teh threat to teh government is conituing, I believe the Arroyos action is justified. And on top of that the public really knows that the destabilzation efforts has really grown out of proportion and the opposition has became so abusive. It seems to me that Arroyo was pushed or antagonized so much by the opposition to such action.
It is healthy for the opposition or any citizens to group together to air their issues against the governement. But everybody knows too that this can be done in a peaceful and orderly manner that will not cause inconveniece to the rest of the citizenry’s way of living and much more harm the nation as a whole especially the econony. The government has designated places were they can air side, we a have a lot forum such this PCIJ blog. To air our grievances, the courts are operating….
There so many debates about the legality of the Declaration. This is good and healthy for the country. Im very sure the country will be benifit much from these debates . But I am also glad that there is an avenue to end this debate. The Supreme Court! As a matter of fact
several lawyers group were reported to be going to the Supreme Court already. And the government has decalred that they are open to be challenged in Supreme Court.
tagaisla – guess who was just offered “lifetime tenures” as justices? i digress – again, it’s a matter of perceptions and our analysis of events. i respect your analysis. i just don’t agree 100%.
>>>>> rego, pure innuendoes eto!!!!
5. under the framework of rule of law, we should as a people address the flaws in the system by:
tagaisla.. forcing GMA to quit and hand over power to the vice (the idea to stick to her as there’s no alternative is lame.. like mam carmen i refuse to beleive a nation of 80 million could not produce a credible alternative
>>>> rego again: but where is teh alternative. Dont you think it woudl be beterr to find an alternatiev first before you ask us to remove her.
Power vaccum yang gusto nyong mangyari eh. Remove firt and let find an alternative later. Hindi yan ang gusto ng karamihan. Ang gusto ng karamihan ay buuhin muna ang alternative na yan.
>>>> I definitely don’t agree that GMA should be “forced” to quit. I emphasized the word forced. Because that is very much in conflict to Ka Pepe’s ideals of Civil Liberty. We are suposed to condem force applied to any body especailly the government applying force on us. Isn’t that applicable to the government as well? And to Mrs Arroyo as a president and as a person? Mrs Arroyo has Civil Liberties too!
we can also issue a call to resign. But never ever force her. Resignation is her personal prerogative. we can not dictate that to her.Applying forced to Mrs Arroyo is defintely a mob. A harrasment. We dont want to be mob, right? we dont want to be harrased right?
tagaisla – sabi nga nila friend rego stick and stones may break my bones but words would never harm me. what’s the use of “calls” if no one listens. dapat may karampatang action din kung ayaw makinig.
Rego- and how is that for a Civil Liberty? Grabe naman, you accuse me and ryebosco that we contracdicted Ka Pepes Civil Liberty. An dYou claime to be a a big fan of Ka pepes Civil Liberty remember???
Now Mrs arroyo has repeated issue dher answer to teh numerous call for her resignation. And that is she will never resign.
So my very personal take on this is that, Mrs Arroyo should never be forced to quit. She should be accorded with all the benifits of Rule of Law and Civil Liberties! Just like any other citizens.
There is a defined process in the constitution to prosecute a sitting president. The impeachment. And that should be followed at all cost!. No alibis, please!
– agree on a timetable for naitonal elections, within six months (no juntas or revoluntionary council; the left can play, so is the right and middle).
>>> Its good that you still believe in elections. But if the impeachment is followed there is no need to hold a national elections. The Law succesion states that the Vice President take sover once the President is convicted.
And most importantly, holding elections will cost us a lot of money. So where will we get the money for that sicne our goevernemnt is bankcrupt.
So pushing for impeachment and following the rule of sucession is more practical for me! Saves cost, saves energy , save lawlessness! Result strengthen and working system of government
tagaisla – there could be some gaps in your logic, but again, its your interpretation.. there are some things more important than money. i’m not a hypocrite, money is important. but not always. so i beleive we should spend to clear upo once and for all these issues. if we don’t spend it on legitimate issues like this, it would only be used to pay our foreign debt or used to buy more “fertiliser”. the elections as i mentioned is flawed. like it or not, Noli has benifitted from this flaw. i still stick to my guns (i have a glock 19, a P90 which is not entirely legal, a 357 and 45 S&W, and a 45 -1911- and they all have good battery power and makes those nice lights and sounds when the trigger is depressed) or initial premise Noli leads caretaker governemnt for six month.
Rego, but her are other alternatiev that will not cost you taht much money. There are other important ares wher theta money can be well spent.
I believe that the need to reform the electroal system is very very urgent before we hold any election. Computerized it. Thats why I really really feel bad that we are so busy with the political bickering that the computerization program of COMELC is derailed. If only the opposition is not wreaking havoc in their greedy desire to take over power , by this time should be focusing on the computerization program by now.
tagaisla – computersing the COMELEC was already fraught with fraud even before it started (dig up the news on the sneaky bidding) and this was supposedly for the 04 presidential elections.
rego – but does that mean that we should not computerized our election anymore . Why not prosecute the thos who corrupted teh computeraiztion project. put them to jail and Go on with teh computerization????? We know that that is a very good solution so why not pursue it?
Now election season is past approaching and Im sure we should expect a deluge of issues again that will forced the county to its bended knees.
Why dont we just work and focus on computerization of election now!
– to allow a level playing field, expenses should be capped for election campaign, to be audited (allow x number of radio or tv spots, no handbills or posters or banners, billboards).
>>>> I am alined with you on this.
– for the new government, focus on strenthening its moral accountability first (e.g. transparency as a way of working, addressing backlog of cases around corruption)
>>>Lets be realistic, omit the moral. Just accountibility would be perfect. There is no set standard for moralilty, there is no law for that ,no yardstick for measurement and that makes it higly debatable. ( and hilig hilig pa naman ng mag pinoy mag debate)
– addressing key problems around employment, livelihoods by tackling the issues of true agrarian reform (as compared to cosmetic); sustainable development and equity
>>>> we are very much alined here.
– working on an overhaul of the current political system, not of getting rid of the legislative, but looking for means for it to be accountable, reviweing the systme of contracts to eliminate pork barrel etc.
>>>>> I have no problem with this.
tagaisla – it’s not so bad, there are issues where we see eye to eye, but i’m also concerend on how you look at some issues. but i respect your right to look at issues the way you do.
tagaisla
March 5th, 2006 at 5:02 am
tagaisla – sabi nga nila friend rego stick and stones may break my bones but words would never harm me. what’s the use of “calls” if no one listens. dapat may karampatang action din kung ayaw makinig.
Rego- and how is that for a Civil Liberty? Grabe naman, you accuse me and ryebosco that we contracdicted Ka Pepes Civil Liberty. An dYou claime to be a a big fan of Ka pepes Civil Liberty remember???
tagaisla -i am still a big fan, it is thorugh the strenght of ka pepe’s convictions that helped me change my own life views. and what did i write that contradicted my belief in Civil Liberties? Not all actions are violent, nor are they against the constitution. I did not call for armed insurrection. try to dig up a copy of ka pepe;s creed, and if i remeber right – paraphrased na ito – was his belief in non violence (against power of oppresors). bagamat kinulong siya ni marcos ng 2ng taon, paglabas niya ay hindi nagbago ang kanyang paninniwala. kasama siya sa pagbuo ng FLAG at TFD. Kasama siya sa pakikipagusap sa iba’t ibang bloke ng opposisyon, maski na ang kaliwa para magbuo ng tunay na oposisyon. nagkakaiba ba tayo ng pagkaintindi ng civil liberties?
rego – but does that mean that we should not computerized our election anymore . Why not prosecute the thos who corrupted teh computeraiztion project. put them to jail and Go on with teh computerization????? We know that that is a very good solution so why not pursue it?
tagaisla – regarding why not prosecute those…. i think GMA or her administration should answer these questions. Bakit nga ba hindi prinosecute sila Abalos? Bakit nakalusot ang nanalong contractor bagamat hindi nito na satisfy ang bidding requirements.
tagaisla.. forcing GMA to quit and hand over power to the vice (the idea to stick to her as there’s no alternative is lame.. like mam carmen i refuse to beleive a nation of 80 million could not produce a credible alternative
>>>> rego again: but where is teh alternative. Dont you think it woudl be beterr to find an alternatiev first before you ask us to remove her.
Power vaccum yang gusto nyong mangyari eh. Remove firt and let find an alternative later. Hindi yan ang gusto ng karamihan. Ang gusto ng karamihan ay buuhin muna ang alternative na yan.
tagaisla – marami ng naipost dito (at salamt sa inyong lahat), at mukhang nakililmutan mo na ang na-share kong alternative.
tagaisla – guess who was just offered “lifetime tenures” as justices? i digress – again, it’s a matter of perceptions and our analysis of events. i respect your analysis. i just don’t agree 100%.
>>>>> rego, pure innuendoes eto!!!!
tagaisla – i thought i saw it posted somewhere.. but on the same vein, was’nt government employees also offered a pay hike? i for one would not object to pay hikes to low and middle level government empoyees, especially the teachers. in fact, government should formalise the emplyment of casuals who seem to do everything. just hang around the qc city hall and you’d know what i mean. but again i digress. the timing is flawed. first task for a belauguered player is to shore up the defences, maintain a strong base from which you can deal with your opponents. it smells more like a bribe.
tagaisla – read behind the lines of the news my friend – just the very conduct of overpricing that damn fertisliser, without contracts, and funds peersonally delivered by bagmen – isn’t this suspicious enough? Besides, the money was only given to those who were prepostioned.
from rego>>>>>> yes it is supicicous. But you still have to validate your suspcion and get a court ruling.. That how an orderky society works
tagaisla – court ruling, i already stated my case about flawed institutions… who was the highest charged official in the fertiliser scandal. what benefit would this person have in doing the scam? what is the common thread among all those politicians who received fertiliser funds? my point is, there could be scapegoats, and we might not really charge who ordered the scam in the first place….
rego -The impeachment case was not rejected outright. There was a televised proceedings and the Justice comitte level. For everybody to see And it was rejected out of technicality. Even so, there was a plenary voting that can overide justice comitte decision. It was carried out openly and in full view of the public and still it was voted out. And the main reason and everybody knows, was that there were so many opposition congressman that were absent during the voting.
tagaisla – going back to dogma, search your feelings, ika nga ni YOda kay luke… was the whole process as you witnessed it fair?
rego ->>>>> I dont see nothing wrong with it and im sure teh reason why peoepl did not troop to EDSA when teh verdict was handed down becuas ethey believ that ther is nothing wrong with it.
tagaisla – ok, on your first statement that you saw nothing wrong, it’s your belief and it is respected. on your second point on the reason why people did’nt troop to EDSA as they beleive that there is nothing wrong with it– do count me out as part of those people who did not go to EDSA as there was “nothing wrong with it”. Again, your views, and it’s your right to cling to these leaps of logic.
salamt din pala rego sa pag share mong post ng iyong kameimbro – medyo inisip ko na lang na nakasama na ang land reform doon sa mga issues na binaggit niya. tapat at sincero ang tono, at sa akin, malaking starting point na iyong pagiging tapat at sincero, ang nakikinig at pagbukas sa isipan ng iba pa palang ideya/perspektiba o analysis. tingin ko lang mahalaga ang politika. bawat hininga natin ay apektado ng politika at hindi maiiwasan. ang tanong – anong klaseng politika???
p.s. masmasarap nga paginiwan mo sa rep ang sinaing na isda at nasisipsip nito ang lasa ng suka, luya, bawang, at sibuyas. at iprito kaagad sa mainit na mantika.. crispy..maswerte ka nga.. .
tagaisla
March 5th, 2006 at 5:19 am
mitaMs
tagaisla – oo naman mitaMs, malaki ang tiwala ko sa pinoy at proseso talaga ang paghahanap ng points of agreement. makakatulong siguro na lumabas tayo sa ating indibidwal or organisasyonal o idteolohikal na pananaw kung magkaisa tayo sa end game. i’d take it again from ka pepe, sa kanya nanggaling ito at naging titulo pa ng libro “a nation for our children”. it forces us to think of what is at stake if we fail.
mitaMs
tagaisla -iyon ang challenge sa civil society diba, paghanap ng magandang paraan. ngunit bago noon, siguro sagutin ang ano ang gusto natin, saan tayo patungo, paano tayo makakarating doon. huwag na nating hintayin na tumagal pa si GMA na kasing tagal ni Marcos sa trono – kasi nag hihirap na, este lalo pang naghihirap ang mga tao ngayon.
mitaMs
tagaisla – taking yhour idea, i wouldnt stop at Cebu. let;s stretch the idea further, why not rotating capitals so all city centres can host the central governemtn. just think the boost there would be towards local economiy if you bring government to a capital city outside manila. we’ll just have to ensure accountability, and checks and balances tulad ng malakas na senaodo at kongreso. kaso ang punto ko talaga ay mareresolve ba ang paglipat ng capital sa ibang lugar ang kagyat na problema? ito ba ang una nating dapat gawin, sa dami ng kailangang gawin upang palakasin ang opposisyon?
salamt..
tagaisla
March 5th, 2006 at 5:26 am
ms. bayani said,
March 1, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
tagaisla….
i find your views and wisdom commendable…it speaks of a highly learned man with a sense of maturity, foresight and empathy with his environment…..may your tribe increase.
salamat po ms bayani. paano po kayo nakakasiguro na lalake ako:) jokes lang po. sa tutoo lang ay namomotivate po ako sa mga nagpopost at sa pagpapalitan ng kurokuro. kung mayroong naimpluwensyahan (tulad din naman sa mga natutututunan ko sa mga punto ng mga nagpost din) ay masaya na po ako. lalo pa akong sasaya kung ang talino, creativity at insights nating lahat ay natratransporma sa postibong aksyon.
p.s. sana manager ko pa kayo
rego
March 6th, 2006 at 3:28 am
Taga isla,
I just have nothing but high regards to you. Hope you continue blogging. Magaganda naman talaga ng mga panukala mo. Medyo yung sa ilan di pa tayo nagkakasusndu. But, If would really go to the bottomline, ang feeling ko parehong pareho ang gusto natiing mangyari. I have to stop going back to this thread. Medyo malayo na eto para balikan. Go and comment s on the latest thread.(The Flash Mob Thread.) medyo mellow na doon, kahit ako, iba ang tono ko doon ….
You’re right. mas suamarp ang sinaging nung nilagay na sa ref… But I believe that teh tulingan is not that fresh here compared there.
kuleet ato
March 7th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
i enjoy reading your blogs you guys however its inevitable to notice that we Filipinos have alot to say whether we are pro or anti goverment (Gloria) which i think is cool though….we keep on talkin’ and talkin and in this case blogging and blogging pero walang nanayayari??? Why dont we start on ourselves??? Nagbabayad kaba ng Buwis ng tama at wasto??? Pag nahuli kaba sa EDSA dahil you violate traffic rules nag susuhol kaba sa MMDA para wag kuhanin yung lisenya mo??? MAy trabaho kaba??? Tinanong mo naba sa sarili mo ano na ba nagawa ko sa Pilipinas??? Nakatulong naba ako para labanan ang ikinagagalit ko sa gobyerno??? Kasi tingin ko naging fault-finder na tayo eh,am not saying its bad and am not saying its good siguro dapat wasto lang…kasi most of us (Filipino) ay nagkanya kanya na…masakit naman pero totoo…naging self-centered na tayo…ewan ko….
kaya hangang ngayon isang malaking tanong talaga yung ; scud_1975 said Minsan tuloy naiisip ko, di kaya mahal ng mga Pilipino ang Pilipinas?
God Bless the Philippines…